Re: [asa] Designed Kangaroos?

From: Vernon Jenkins <>
Date: Thu Aug 09 2007 - 16:27:00 EDT

Thanks for your observations, Dave. But, please be assured - I'm no gnostic!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Wallace" <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [asa] Designed Kangaroos?

> Iain Strachan wrote:
> Most people are not like me, and have a utilitarian
>> approach to numbers - the numbers are there to give you a good idea of
>> quantity, and whether they are are a big "so what?".
>> The number of people who are sufficiently interested in these esoteric
>> properties of numbers is so small that your findings are going to have
>> absolutely no effect on anyone. That is why I think that if there is a
>> Divine intent behind the patterns, that it's not the one you seem to
>> think it is, because 99.9% of people couldn't care less whether a number
>> is triangular or not. What concept is easier to grasp - that Jesus died
>> and stood in our place in taking the penalty for our sins, or that 2701
>> is the 73rd Triangular number? Which is more meaningful to 99.9% of people?
>> Iain
> Even people who know about primes, triangulars, squares, fibonacci
> numbers or different kinds of infinities (eg aleph null... and others as
> defined by Cantor as I recall) may well not be interested. I'm not! In
> fact I would tend to avoid such as skating very close to Gnosticism. In
> Collusions and Ephesians where I am reading right now, Paul says that he
> determined to know nothing among them but Christ crucified... In your
> note to Michael the other day you said something like, that it was not
> pulpit material but for the ministers private encouragement... Like
> Iain I to have seen healings and answers to prayer that are hard to
> credit to anything but God and I find those more encouragement.
> <quote>
> There are numerous references to the Gnostics in second century
> proto-orthodox literature. Most of what we know about them is from the
> polemic thrown at them by the early Church Fathers. They are alluded to
> in the Bible in the pastorals (spurious Paulines of 1 Timothy, 2
> Timothy, and Titus), for example 1 Tm 1:4 and 1 Tm 6:20, and possibly
> the entirety of Jude. Ignatius of Antioch writes against them as well as
> Docetism, a doctrine closely related to Gnosticism that stated that
> Christ was pure spirit and had only a phantom body. Second Clement is a
> document aimed at refuting early second century Gnosticism. Marcion was
> the most famous of the Gnostics, and he established a "canon" of the
> Pauline epistles (minus the pastorals) and a "mutilated" Luke
> (presumably considered so because it lacked proof-texts such as Lk
> 22:43-44). Justin Martyr mentioned him c. 150 CE, and Irenaeus and
> Tertullian wrote against him extensively in the late second century (in
> Against Heresy and Against Marcion, respectively).
> </quote>
> My brother was into this kind of thing as well as prophecy. My brother
> ignored the plain meanings of the scriptures to such an extent, that my
> father, who is a minister, said shortly prior to my brothers death, that
> he was unsure of my brothers salvation. My brother was a diabetic and
> killed himself not long after, by eating too much candy and sweets and
> going into a coma. I know I cleaned out the apartment and there was
> very little food but there was candy everywhere. What shall it profit a
> man who had all kinds of esoteric knowledge but missed the plain message?
> Another argument I would have against effectiveness of this kind of
> thing was that where I worked shortly before I retired the bible
> text/stories were constantly (daily) mocked, especially "666" and the
> number of the beast and anything Christian was absurd ala Dawkins or
> worse.
> Let us know if you are successful on the sites Iain mentioned and then
> maybe it will be worth looking at.
> Please I am not willing to argue or even spent time looking at what you
> have as I have too many other things on my push down stack by people
> like Stott, Packer, D A Carson or even the mp3 files from the recent ASA
> conference which I would have dearly loved to attend.
> I expect to be wrong in lots of other areas of my theology and this
> could be one more, but I kind of doubt it.
> Dave W (CSCA)
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Received on Thu Aug 9 16:27:32 2007

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