Re: [asa] Designed Kangaroos?

From: Vernon Jenkins <>
Date: Thu Aug 09 2007 - 16:20:21 EDT

Thanks for these observations, Iain. However, you keep referring to my associating the non-acceptance of my findings with some acute form of 'wickedness' in the person concerned. I don't believe I've ever suggested that; it is most certainly completely foreign to my thinking. Possibly you have in mind something that I've expressed badly somewhere along the line?


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Iain Strachan
  To: Vernon Jenkins
  Cc: Michael Roberts ; Merv ; ; Ted Davis ; Peter Loose
  Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Designed Kangaroos?

  With reference to your two points:

    (1) while we may not agree on their _purpose_, the observed phenomena constitute clear and objective evidence of _supernatural activity_ do they not?

  I think when you put it like that it puts people off. Putting it like that leaves people no way to disagree - and when they do you tell them that it's because they are sinful. That's the problem with your entire approach, and why you have made no progress with getting people to take these findings seriously. As I've said in the past, there seem to be three alternatives:

  (1) Pure coincidence.
  (2) Human design.
  (3) Supernatural design.

  Having looked at cases in music where composers have used number symbolism (sometimes openly admitting it), it has always been clear to me that the patterns in Genesis 1:1 that you found are far more detailed and impressive than anything I've seen in music (for which there is little dispute that it's human design). Hence (1) seems ruled out - the observed pattern indicates strongly deliberate intent.

  (2) would not stack up with my experience of other humans writing to "numerical constraints", which invariably leads to twisted and contorted syntax, often with little meaning or literary merit, apart from the author's ingenuity in getting the text to obey numerical constraints. Note that it's much harder to do this with text (getting the numeric values to add up to a specified value) than it would be for music (contriving the bar/note counts to make a particular total). Music can be "shaped" without destroying the meaning, in a way that text can't be.

  This seems to leave (3) as the most likely possibility. However, I think rather than ramming it down peoples throats that "this is a clear miracle and if you can't see it then it's because you are wicked", it would be better (and more humble) to invite people to see if they can come up with a more plausible explanation.


    (2) Dave (Wallace) appears to think I am engaged in some form of Gnosticism. Would that now be your own view?

  No, it wouldn't be my own view. However, it's easy to see why this might be viewed as such. The following sentence from the Wikipedia article on Gnosticism shows why:

  In order to free oneself from the inferior material world, one needs gnosis, or esoteric spiritual knowledge available only to a learned elite.

  As I've explained, probably 99.9% of people aren't able to comprehend the significance of the numerical patterns you discovered. So this knowledge is indeed only available to a small "elite" group of people. For most people the properties of numbers don't matter. When Dick Fischer boasted of his 163 missions over Vietnam, the first thing that struck me was that 163 is a prime number. But then I'm a peculiar person in that respect. Most people wouldn't even think about that sort of thing. Likewise in my last job, my office phone number was a perfect square. But for most people it's just a phone number.

  It is of note that the "Matrix" trilogy of films was influenced stongly by ideas from Gnostic Christianity, and these films are full of hidden, esoteric messages, and number symbolism etc etc that most people miss the first time round till some fan on a fan website points it out. For example, in the first film, there is a central character called Neo, who is a clear analogue of Christ. It's been noted that Neo is an anagram of One, as in "The chosen One". In one of the scenes in the film, a nameplate on a space ship shows at the bottom "Mark 11 number 3" as a serial number. The scene shows Neo staring directly at it. If you look up Mark 11:3 you will see it says "You are the Son of God". Thus this "hidden message", disguised as a serial number on a nameplate, underscores the intent of the authors of the film in making Neo a Christ analogue. It might well be argued that your patterns are also "hidden messages", and hence some "special knowledge".

  Hope this clarifies somewhat.

    With every good wish,


  After the game, the King and the pawn go back in the same box.

  - Italian Proverb

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Thu Aug 9 16:21:32 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Thu Aug 09 2007 - 16:21:32 EDT