Re: YEC and ID may be fellow brethren was -Re: [asa] Secularist

From: David Opderbeck <>
Date: Tue Jun 26 2007 - 12:42:59 EDT

And to add a bit to what James says here, I don't think anyone should feel
too good about how Europe is trying to handle ID and public education. I
think the European Union is a good project generally, but it's important
IMHO to note that it is in many ways fundamentally undemocratic. Most
important legislation and regulation in the EU is imposed through the
Council of the European Union based on recommendations by the European
Commission -- neither of which are directly elected bodies. The only
directly elected body, the European Parliament, has a very limited role in
law making, and usually only functions in an advisory capacity. The result
of this is that a concentrated, central, unaccountable body could dictate
how local schools handle the teaching of origins throughout the EU.

The American model of public education, which stresses local control by
elected local school boards, obviously has its flaws. As we've seen local
school boards can adopt dumb or even disingenuous policies concerning
science curricula. But, at least local school boards are directly
accountable to the public. And, even though our establishment clause
jurisprudence is messed up, at least we have some constitutional free speech
and free exercise of religion guarantees that impose some limits on school
boards and other government bodies concerning public education.

On 6/26/07, James Mahaffy <> wrote:
> Pim,
> Really it is responses like this that make me wonder how deep your faith
> commitment is and
> if you really can feel a bond in Christ to fellow Christians who take
> stands you disagree with.
> For pity's sake the article Janice cites starts talking about a Lutheran
> pastor jailed because he compared abortion with
> the holocaust. While comparing it to the holocaust is inflamentory, many
> Christians myself included would see
> abortion as taking the life of unborn people and something abhorrent in
> the sight of God.
> And I again resent your making general labels that do not fit all
> Creationists or ID. I am a Creationists (not a young earth variety but so
> what) and know and appreciate some ID people and don't need to ALWAYS hear
> you pick on them. As you well know they are not all of the same
> stripe. You are not enabling communication with brethren some of whom might
> be helped by ASA but I would hesitate to have them post hear because of the
> way some slam them.
> --
> James Mahaffy ( Phone: 712 722-6279
> 498 4th Ave NE
> Biology Department FAX : 712 722-1198
> Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
> >>> On 6/25/2007 at 11:12 PM, in message
> <>, PvM <>
> wrote:
> > A bit misleading. Europe silences creationists in education. I am sure
> > that the nuance may have been lost on our dear friend and sister
> > Janice :-)
> >
> > I find it encouraging that Europe takes a clear stance on creationism
> > and public education. In addition, Europe seems to have correctly
> > classified Intelligent Design as a form of creationism. So nothing
> > really much about silencing creationists.
> >
> > On 6/25/07, Janice Matchett <> wrote:
> >>
> >> Back in town for a short stint - so will take a few minutes to post a
> few
> >> items of interest to some, I'm sure. :)
> >>
> >> [1] Secularist Europe Silences ... Creationists
> >
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Received on Tue Jun 26 12:43:13 2007

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