Re: [asa] Brownback on evolution

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Sun Jun 17 2007 - 14:39:28 EDT

On 6/15/07, PvM <> wrote:
> Your reading of Kaufman seems to be flawed as it did not rule that the
> government agencies have no right to ban religious ideas

I said(My teaser to Dave Wallace to pique his interest):

"It actually says that government agencies don't have the right to ban
religious ideas, BTW. "

7th Circuit:

"defendants infringed on his right to practice
his religion when they refused to allow him to create an inmate group to
study and discuss atheism".

Study and discuss? Study and discuss what? Chess? No, study and discuss
the religious ideas of atheism. So, pardon me for leaping to the alleged
seemingly wild speculation and alleged "flawed" conclusion that it was
discussion of religious ideas (of atheism) which the government officials
were seeking to ban (while at the same not banning
Wiccan,Buddhist,Christian,and Islamic religious ideas). Do they have the
power to ban one but not the others? The readers can draw their own
conclusions. Can't they?

I said:
"It reinforces the idea that ideas pertaining to "ultimate" questions are
protected, (getting that from previous case). "

7th Circuit mentions ultimate concern:

we have suggested in the past that when a
person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of "ultimate
concern" that for her occupy a "place parallel to that
filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons," those
beliefs represent her religion. Fleischfresser v. Dirs. of Sch.
Dist. 200, 15 F.3d 680, 688 n.5 (7th Cir. 1994) (internal
citation and quotation omitted); see also Welsh v. United
States, 398 U.S. 333, 340 (1970); United States v. Seeger,
380 U.S. 163, 184-88 (1965). We have already indicated that
atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a
religion. See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934
(7th Cir. 2003) ("If we think of religion as taking a position
on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.").

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Received on Sun Jun 17 14:39:47 2007

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