Re: [asa] Event or process

From: George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com>
Date: Tue May 22 2007 - 22:09:05 EDT

Gregory -

To begin with I'm hesitant to respond in view of the pattern of past attempts at communication. You post something, I reply & (perhaps after another round or two) there's silence. A few weeks later you reappear on the list saying much the same thing. What's the point?

Rejection of my statement that "no part of us is divine" verges on dangerous theological ground - blurring of the distinction between creator and creature, perhaps in the form of creation as emanation. Of course it's necessary to speak of (a) the "Godmanhood" of Christ, which is sui generis and (b) the possibility for believers of participation in the divine life - theosis or what the Lutheran dogmaticians called the mystical union. But those don't affect the original question about the origins of humanity.

You are still playing your old tune about a distinction between "natural" and "cultural and human-social." I've explained earlier what I mean by "natural" and while you might not like that broad usage please remember that it is what I mean.

& not everybody who use the word "process" is a "process theologian" or "process philosopher." There is no "process theology" conspiracy going on here.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Gregory Arago
  To: George Murphy ; Jack ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 10:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Event or process

  "In any case, the human soul, or spirit, or whatever you wish to call it, is not divine. It is not part of God. No part of us is "divine." I agree that the divine does not emerge from material things, but that is utterly without relevance to the question at issue."

  The question at issue is 'event' or 'process.' According to the above interpretation, it appears (but this may be my misinterpretation of the appearance) that spirit formed via (a) process. Let it be admitted then that there are other Christian theological traditions that speak about 'Godmanhood' (bogochilovechestvo) which are not subsumed by a 'no part of us is divine' perspective. If spirit (actually) 'emerges' from material things (cf. theory of theistic-biological evolution) then there is/could be no 'event' at which the Creator could have in-breathed us with the Holy Spirit.

  "the 1st fruits of the divine come from the Holy Spirit." - George
  "Exactly. The 1st fruits come from supernatural, not natural processes." - Jack
  "No. Everything ultimately comes from God but in the vast majority of cases God works through natural processes. The burden is on you to give some convincing reason why in these cases God's action must be unmediated." - George

  'Majority' is statistical. Could it be suggested that in a vaster majority of cases God works through cultural and human-social processes? Not if one is a NATURalist and cannot entertain the idea that nature does not subsume almost everything else (except that which is kenotically hidden)!!

  There seem to be many questions about 'process theology' and 'process philosophy' under the surface here.

  Gregory

  George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com> wrote:
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jack"
    To: "George Murphy" ;
    Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:53 PM
    Subject: Re: [asa] Event or process

> "just saying "it seems much more likely" carries no more weight than "I
> can't believe that ...""
>
> My actual stance on this is that is it not possible for the divine to
> emerge from material beings, especially, fallen sinful beings, but I dont
> have the time or the space to fully argue for that idea here.

    & I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

    In any case, the human soul, or spirit, or whatever you wish to call it, is
    not divine. It is not part of God. No part of us is "divine." I agree
    that the divine does not emerge from material things, but that is utterly
    without relevance to the question at issue.

> " the 1st fruits of the divine come from the Holy Spirit."
>
> Exactly. The 1st fruits come from supernatural, not natural processes.

    No. Everything ultimately comes from God but in the vast majority of cases
    God works through natural processes. The burden is on you to give some
    convincing reason why in these cases God's action must be unmediated.

    Shalom
    George
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

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Received on Tue May 22 22:09:41 2007

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