Re: [asa] flagella

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Tue May 22 2007 - 17:33:35 EDT

I think this supposed rebuttal depends on the notion that the whole came
together "miraculously," which should have happened all at once, although
the pieces might not have appeared instantaneously. However, that all the
genes have a common source that evolved step by step indicates that
irreducible complexity is a crock, unless it can be shown that none of
the evolutionary steps can have a benefit en route to the final state. My
bet is that the several steps are likely to have benefits, although, not
being present during the process makes the sequence probable rather than
observed. "I can't see how it could have happened" has changed to "Some
see it happening through these steps."

On Tue, 22 May 2007 13:19:27 -0500 "David Opderbeck"
<> writes:
This is an interesting article, but I'm uncertain why it has such major
implications for the ID debate. The article suggests that the genes that
regulate the proteins in bacterial flagellar systems have a common core
of ancestral genes. Why does that, in itself, suggest that the system as
a whole arose through the gradual modification and cooption of mechanical
parts? I'm not seeing how showing that the genes have common precursors
solves the problem of the irreducible complexity of the particular
assemblage of mechanical components built from the proteins expressed by
those genes. I suspect someone like Behe would say " yeah, I don't
reject common descent, so I'm not surprised that these genes derive from
a common source; my point isn't about the lineage of the underlying
genes, it's about the unique assemblage of the components built from the
proteins expressed by those genes ." Or maybe my lack of facility with
this literature is clouding the significance of this paper for me?

On 5/22/07, D. F. Siemens, Jr. <> wrote:
/Science/, 316:799 (11 May 2007) has a summary of an article in /Proc.
Natl. Sci. U.S.A./, 104:7116 (2007) on the evolution of the genes
involved in the bacterial flagella. "I can't imagine ..." again fails.

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Received on Tue May 22 19:16:36 2007

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