RE: [asa] RATE's Radioactive Thorium Plot (was Ancient Universe)

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Sat May 19 2007 - 11:24:44 EDT

Stephen wrote:


>>That is the main conclusion drawn by the RATE team from their $1.25
million project.<<


I think they should invest another million or so to show us how quickly
Precambrian sedimentary deposits can build up in the 48 hours between
the inception of Creation on the first day and the creation of animals
on the fifth day. Do I hear another miracle coming on?


Dick Fischer

Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History



-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of Steven M Smith
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:15 PM
Subject: [asa] RATE's Radioactive Thorium Plot (was Ancient Universe)


Apologies for the late response on this thread. I am about a week
behind in reading posts on the ASA list.

On Sunday, May 13, 2007, Robert Schneider asked ...
>> Has the RATE team come up with a graph plotting the rate
>> of decrease of radioactive thorium? Enquiring minds want to
>> know. (With apologies to The Vicar--but I'm a Lay Reader.)

On Monday, May 14 2007, Randy Isaac replied ...
> The RATE Vol. II report has five entries for thorium in its
> index. Four of those pertain to references that have the word
> thorium in the title of the article. The other simply mentions
> that where thorium radiohaloes are found, they are far
> outnumbered by uranium radiohaloes. I could not find a
> reference to thorium in their chapter on isochron discordances.

Although I have not read the RATE Vol. II report, I was asked by a
friend to read and comment on RATE's summary book for the layman reader
-- "Thousands ... not Billions." The thorium graph that you want to
see was NOT in that book either. However, from the information given in
this book we can easily construct a general graph that illustrates the
increase in decay rates for any of the long lived radioisotopes (V-50,
Nd-144, Hf-174, Pt-192, In-115, Gd-152, Te-123, Pt-190, La-138, Sm-147.
Rb-87, Re-187, Lu-176, Th-232, U-238, K-40, or U-235).

Because of the limitations of my email account and the ASA archives, I
am going to briefly describe how to construct the graph. On a piece of
paper draw a vertical line for our X axis. Label the bottom as 0 and
the top of the line as 4.65 billion years. Title this X axis "Apparent
Radioisotope Age". RATE admits that today's Apparent Radioisotope Age
of the Earth is actually about 4.65 billion years.

Now from 0 on the X axis draw a horizontal line to the right for our Y
axis. Label the left end of the line 0 and the right end as 6,000
years. Title this Y axis "RATE Determined Age". RATE also determined
that the true age of the Earth is only about 6,000 years. ("One
principle agreed on by all the RATE members is that the earth is young,
on the order of 6,000 years old. This is not simply a working hypothesis
to be tested as to whether it is true or false. Instead, it is a basic
conclusion drawn from the biblical record of creation as written by the
only One who was present, God himself." p. 174).

In The Beginning, both our Apparent Radioisotope Age and our RATE
Determined Age would be 0. So for our graph, plot a point at the

On page 138 of "Thousands ... not Billions", Don DeYoung tells us: "The
RATE research concludes that the primary explanation for the large
amount of daughter products now present in the earth's rocks are two
periods of highly accelerated nuclear decay, with about 90 percent of
the total occurring during the early part of creation week ... "
Earlier in the book, we are told that this burst of accelerated nuclear
decay probably took place on Days 1 & 2 of Creation. This gives us our
second point on the graph. On Day 2 (or about 0.005 years on the "RATE
Determined Age" Y axis) plot a point at about 4.1 billion years for the
"Apparent Radioisotope Age".

Using a rounded figure of 1,500 years between Creation and the Flood and
the rest of DeYoung's statement ("... and the remainder during the year
of the Genesis flood.") we can finish our graph. For a RATE Determined
Age of 1,500 years plot another point at 4.1 billion years for the
Apparent Radioisotope Age. (The actual age would be 4.1 billion plus
1,500 years but that just rounds to 4.1 B.Y. on our graph). Then
because of the second burst of decay, in RATE year 1,501 we can put a
point at 4.65 billion years for the Apparent Radioisotope Age. Finally
our last point is plotted at 6,000 years for RATE and 4.65 billion years
for the "Apparent Radioisotope Age".

When finished you should have a graph with 2 stair steps. For those you
want to know how this fits in the Geologic Time Scale, label the first
step as Precambrian and the second step as "Paleozoic, Mesozoic,
Cenozoic combined". The guts of your graph should look something like
this ... (unless web formatting destroys my 'artwork').
__________|"Paleozoic, Mesozoic, Cenozoic combined
| Precambrian

And that's it. That is the main conclusion drawn by the RATE team from
their $1.25 million project.

(Blame me and not my employer for these statements.)
Steven M. Smith, Geologist, U.S. Geological Survey
Box 25046, M.S. 973, DFC, Denver, CO 80225
Office: (303)236-1192, Fax: (303)236-3200
-USGS Nat'l Geochem. Database NURE HSSR Web Site-

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Sat May 19 11:25:09 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sat May 19 2007 - 11:25:09 EDT