Re: Miracles was Re: [asa] stance

From: Christine Smith <christine_mb_smith@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat May 12 2007 - 11:49:50 EDT

When it comes to miracles, I rather like the
Catholic's Miracle of Lourdes approach...a group of
scientists impartially try to explain the purported
miracle using all known current natural explanations;
if they fail, the scientists conclude that the
incident was "inexplicable", which is the limit of
what a scientist can professionally say in such a
matter. They then turn it over to church officials and
let them decide whether or not it should be recognized
as a miracle of God.

Speaking of Lourdes, in my (admittedly, only limited)
search for critiques of such events and
interpretations, I have been rather shocked by the
lack of any really coherent rebuttal explanations
(which normally atheists and others love to
exploit)--not being a doctor myself, I wonder--is
there any credible evidence to suggest that the events
at Lourdes are not "inexplicable" by scientific
standards?

Christine Smith

--- James Mahaffy <mahaffy@dordt.edu> wrote:

> Bill,
>
> I think you are even serious. We really run into
> problems if Christ's
> miracles MUST fit within our understanding of how he
> normally works.
> Pretty soon there is no virgin birth (an affair
> would produce the needed
> sperm) and Lazarus was just in a coma. Then the God
> I worship is no
> longer really God but just a good man. Isn't that
> what the liberal
> theologian of the 30's were doing? I think that is
> why Machen did his
> graduate work on and wrote the book the virgin birth
> of Christ.
>
> I have said this before I think - but back in the
> 60's we had a visiting
> Christian scientist visit us at Dordt where I was a
> student and he
> seriously suggested that the water of Canna of might
> have been hard
> water to produce the needed carbon (from Calcium
> carbonate). I still
> use that suggestion when I have my students at Dordt
> think how God
> works. Another suggestion I make to get them to
> think is that you can
> explain Peter walking on water by assuming the Lord
> caused to big flat
> bottom dwelling fish to swim right under the water.
> The sad thing is
> that there are some Biblical commentaries [in this
> case I think usually
> liberal theologically] that seriously try and use
> any natural
> explanation [regardless of how implausible] to
> explain miracles.
>
> James Mahaffy (mahaffy@dordt.edu) Phone:
> 712 722-6279
> 498 4th Ave NE
> Biology Department
> FAX : 712
> 722-1198
> Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
> >>> Bill Hamilton <williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com>
> 05/11/07 9:35 PM >>>
> There is of course the possibility that Jesus,
> rather than creating the
> wine, simply transported it from somewhere else (and
> of course
> transported the water elsewhere)
>
> Bill Hamilton
> William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
> 248.652.4148 (home) 248.821.8156 (mobile)
> "...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
> "A theory that you cannot explain to a bartender is
> probably no damn
> good"
> --Ernest Rutherford
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: David Buller <bullerscience@gmail.com>
> To: Robert Schneider <rjschn39@bellsouth.net>
> Cc: Ted Davis <TDavis@messiah.edu>;
> AmericanScientificAffiliation
> <asa@calvin.edu>; Terry M. Gray
> <grayt@lamar.colostate.edu>
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 3:59:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] ASA stance
>
>
>
>
> On 5/11/07, Robert Schneider
> <rjschn39@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Bob's response:
> I can appreciate why the Word made flesh might have
> aged the wine rather
> quickly, assuming "the best wine" tasted aged. One
> could say that he was
>
> giving a special gift to the wedding party, or
> giving a foretaste of the
> messianic banquet, or simply to "show forth his
> glory," the specific
> purpose
> that Scripture seems to indicate. But what possible
> purpose could the
> Word
>
> "in the beginning" have in creating an entire
> universe that gives every
> indication of being billions of years old, but doing
> it in six days?
> What
> purpose would this serve? What kind of sign (semeia)
> is this? Can anyone
>
> give me an answer that does not require me to take
> leave of my senses?
>
>
> Here's another difference in the YEC apparent age
> argument and the
> apparent age of the wine. By creating the wine
> miraculously in front of
> all the guests, he made its true age clear. Not so
> in the creation of
> the universe.
>
>
>
>
> -David Buller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Sat May 12 11:50:51 2007

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