Re: [asa] Godel's theorem [Was: Re: Dawkins, religion, and children]

From: <philtill@aol.com>
Date: Wed May 09 2007 - 23:01:33 EDT

Hi Pim,
 
you said,
 
> As far as completeness and consistent, the two may indeed may be
> sacrificed, one for the other. In most cases we abandon completeness
> for consistency, but what if we were to abandon consistency for
> completeness?
 
I'm sorry to have to disagree but this is not correct. You are mixing Godel's first and second theorems. Please research it and you'll find out.
 
Also, I am not questioning that consistent and complete systems may exist, or that the arithmetic inherent in nature is indeed such a system. I am also not questioning the ability of scientists to develop laws of physics, or mankind's ability to do logic and discover truth.
 
What I am questioning is **nature's** ability to self-determine its own truth, and therefore to self-exist. If we conceive of nature as being ultimately simple, being nothing but one (or a few) mindless phenomena that can be described as axiomatic laws executing repeatedly to bring forth all the appearance of complexity in physics, then it may not strain us as hard to imagine the system self-existing. But since a few simple axiomatic laws are incapable of describing a complete and consistent arithmetical physics, then we must concede that nature in its essence is not simple. Indeed, the axioms at the essence of nature must be uncountably infinite, or rather nature must not be reducible to axioms at all. But then it would be truly amazing to think that such a complete and consistent nature self-exists rather than evolving slowly from a simpler state.
 
While mathematicians have criticized the various misapplications of Godel's theorem, I have never run across anybody criticizing this particular take on it.
 
Phil
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Received on Wed May 9 23:02:19 2007

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