Re: [asa] dawkins and collins on "Fresh Air" interview program

From: Iain Strachan <>
Date: Sat Mar 31 2007 - 15:31:55 EDT

On 3/31/07, PvM <> wrote:
> On 3/31/07, David Opderbeck <> wrote:
> >Not the slightest chance when every few days we get the repeated
> mantra of "Scientifically
> > Vacuous" rammed down our throats. There is one thing I know well, and
> that is that Pim thinks
> > ID is scientifically vacuous, because he must have told us so about 150
> times!
> > It's about time both sides started listening to each other instead of
> making insulting statements
> It's not meant as an insult but as a simple observation of fact. ID is
> scientifically vacuous because of the simple reason that it lacks a
> foundation to make a non-begging-the-question assumption about
> anything. At best it can argue 'X cannot be explained by Y' but that
> has no relevance to the position of ID.


You may not take it as an insult, but that's how it comes across, and
furthermore you repeat this "scientifically vacuous" observation literally
ad nauseam. I did a Google search on the phrase "scientifically vacuous"
and found that most of the hits at the top of the list were places on the
web where you've used the phrase. There were a couple of places where
someone called "Wedgie World" seems to have picked up the meme you've
started her.

But in dialogue (and that was in the context that I made the original point)
to call the other person's ideas "scientifically vacuous" isn't exactly
going to make them willing to continue. During the time when I thought ID
had a fair point to make (I no longer think it holds water) to be told that
the ideas I espoused were "vacuous" would have just antagonized me.

If you're really interested in dialoging with ID people, then you would do
well to find more creative methods than just repeating that they are wrong
in the same way over and over again. Your "scientifically vacuous" phrase
is just as irritating as the creationists I try to debate with who
repeatedly tell me they are "underwhelmed" (I do so hate that word!) with
the evidence for evolution. It's time both sides started to listen to each
other rather than getting into endless cycles of I'm right/you're wrong.


After the game, the King and the pawn go back in the same box.
- Italian Proverb
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Received on Sat Mar 31 15:32:13 2007

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