Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Thu Mar 29 2007 - 21:35:34 EDT

OK, & I apologize for getting heavy handed. Yes, the "Day of the Lord" involves judgment. I think that can be said even without reference to specific texts (of which of course there are a number): For creation to end up in a satisfactory way, evil has to be shown to be evil beyond any challenge, & similarly for good.

But the question is not just whether the Day of the Lord, or the destruction of the world, involves judgment, but whether judgment is an important theme when those things are discussed in a particular context. As I noted in the post I just sent (& I'm way over my limit today), the reason this became a topic for debate to begin with was your attempt to link the discussion in Ch.3 with the local judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah in Ch.2. & I don't think that the secondary character of judgment in Ch.3 is suffient grounds for making that connection, especially since between the two chapters there's a shift in the threats to face and order of the church which are being responded to.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Opderbeck
  To: Jack
  Cc: George Murphy ; ASA list
  Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

  I'm sorry that my response was snippy. George, maybe we are operating with a different presumption / theological presupposition about what the "day of the Lord" is all about? Do you understand the "Day of the Lord" to be a time of judgment, or something else?

  On 3/29/07, Jack <> wrote:
    George, this was your quote that started this portion of the thread: "To note just one point, the way in which II Peter 3:5-7 uses the story of the flood to argue for the possibility of the destruction of "the present heavens and earth" makes no sense if the writer of II Peter did not think of the flood as affecting the whole world."

    Did you forget that we were talking about v 5-7, not just verse 4?

     v7 "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men." (NIV)

    The KJV, NAS, new KJV also all use the word judgment. I doubt you think that all of those translators are wrong, so you must be trying to make some obscure point, that has deviated from your original point. This passage is clearly about judgment. Despite the appearance of being erudite, it is getting to the point where your posts defy common sense.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: George Murphy
      To: David Opderbeck
      Cc: ASA list
      Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:12 PM
      Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

      1) You apparently don't know the difference between what a biblical text says & theological deductions drawn from it.

      2) It should have given you some pause when I had to point out that you'd misquoted the text to bring the word "judgment" into it. You apparently had formed your interpretation of the text before reading it carefully. You ought to practice a little introspective Tendenzkritik.


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Received on Thu Mar 29 20:36:27 2007

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