Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

From: Jack <>
Date: Thu Mar 29 2007 - 07:25:23 EDT

You are, however, making the assumption that the destruction of the "heavens and earth" by fire in II Peter 3:7 is referring to a conflagration affecting the whole world.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: George Murphy
  To: Dick Fischer ; ASA
  Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

  Dick -

  Your last comment about me supposedly running back into a burning building indicates that you have badly misunderstood me. I have been trying to be fairly irenic in exploring your claims but I think that they are wrong. I think that the biblical pictures of Adam and Eve make theological statements about the first of all human beings, not just the ancestors of a part of the present human race. "All" doesn't always have to mean literally "all" but it sometimes does, & I think that in context it's highly tendentious to read "all" in the relevant places in Genesis as if it means just "aome." I think it very unlikely that the present human race descended from a single couple. I won't go into detail arguing for those views - you know about my recent PSCF article. By discussing your views I have not meant to imply that my own have changed and apologize if I have not said "assume for the sake of argument" enough.

  While there was no global flood historically, what is presented in Gen.6-8 is clearly a picture of a catastrophe that wipes out the whole human race except for Noah & in fact the whole world. To note just one point, the way in which II Peter 3:5-7 uses the story of the flood to argue for the possibility of the destruction of "the present heavens and earth" makes no sense if the writer of II Peter did not think of the flood as affecting the whole world.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Dick Fischer
    To: ASA
    Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:59 AM
    Subject: RE: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

    Hi George:

    God provided for Adam. In turn, Adam had an obligation. To me that's a covenant relationship. Today, we have a gorgeous day here in greater Washington. All Washingtonians receive God's blessing equally as did Noah's sons. Whether Ham and Japheth enjoyed a covenant relationship as to salvation is an open question. I certainly don't pretend to know, though I think not. The agreement from God's part was not to bring another devastating flood. And that is true to this day in the areas that they currently reside. Note the devastating tsunami that struck Asia, for example, was not in an area occupied by Noah's kin. Which further exemplifies my point.

    When Shem's line (or at least some of it) resided in Babylon along with Ham's line including Nimrod, who had a covenant relationship with God? If you know I'll abide by your answer because I don't. However, I'll agree that at least at the time of Noah, God did establish a covenant with Noah's entire family. Salvation history working backward from Christ seems to eliminate the branches, though to whom God grants salvation is entirely up to him.

    As to this part:

>>This doesn't invlidate your basic argument about the historicity of Adam but it does mean that it's wrong to suggest that the stories about Adam are just the family history of Israel. They belong equally to the people of Tarshish in Spain, the Ionians, &c - & given what I said earlier, to the Aztecs & in fact everyone<<

    I feel like you just ran back into a burning building. The historicity of Adam and Noah precludes the Aztecs unless you wish to establish a point in time as does Hugh Ross when it would be possible. Do you have such a point? C'mon George, climb down out of your ivory tower and take a stand. Don't reach for the waffle iron. You want Adam and Noah to be ancestral to all mankind, so Adam and Noah, when and where? And don't ask us to go read something. Just cough it up.

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Thu Mar 29 07:26:11 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Thu Mar 29 2007 - 07:26:14 EDT