Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Fri Mar 23 2007 - 13:47:35 EDT

Yes, many of the names listed in Gen.10 can be identified with nations known from secular history in the ancient world. I was going to go on to the implications of that but it wasn't what I was asking. Are these _just_ names of nations or do you think this chapter in fact gives genealogies of real individuals from whom those nations descended &/or were named? Westermann (Genesis 1-11, p.504), e.g., takes the 1st view. In reference to the "sons" of Japheth: "The 'sons' are peoples or countries. The genealogical pattern is only the form of presentation; it is not meant to indicate descent. Only Japheth is a person; he does not stand for a people or country. The same holds for Shem and Ham; all three are only the names of persons and they are part of the tradition history of the flood. They do not belong to the table of nations, but act as a connecting link with it."

This seems plausible to me, though I'm a little cautious about saying what the biblical author "meant." In any case, can I assume that you don't hold that view but think that the references to Gomer &c as sons of Japheth, Ham & Shem are to real historical individuals?

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dick Fischer
  To: ASA
  Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

  Hi George, you wrote:

  Just so we're not talking at cross purposes, am I right in assuming that you read Gen.10 as a collection of real genealogies - i.e., that the people who are listed there are biological descendants of Noah's 3 (real) sons?

  Working back from Abraham we can trace as far as Shem's children, Elam, Asshur, Arpachshad, Lud, and Aram. Elam refers to a people, ElymŠans, concentrated around Susa initially, the ancient capital. Elamites are encountered first as Persians speaking a non-Semitic language. Scholars place Elam at the head of this Persian culture, and he is listed as a king in Persian history books. Asshur, of course, founded Assyria. Arphaxad is known as the forbearer to the Chaldeans, Arphachshad was called Arruphu by the Akkadians, and was known to Hurrians in the Nuzi tablets as Arip-hurra.

  Scholars from the time of Josephus have concurred that the Lydians descended from Lud, called the Luddu from the annals of Ashurbanipal. Lydians were famed archers in the ancient world. In Josephus, "Aram was father of the Aramites, whom the Greeks call Syrians ..." The Aramaeans, founded by Aram, situated themselves in various parts of Syria and Mesopotamia, and the Aramaic language stems from the children of Aram.

  In short, almost every one of the enumerated children stemming from the three sons of Noah can be found somewhere in the ancient world. It's in my upcoming book.

  Dick Fischer

  Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

  Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

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Received on Fri Mar 23 12:48:18 2007

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