Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Wed Mar 21 2007 - 21:12:21 EDT

According to Genesis Abraham is the ancestor not only of Israel but of Edom, the Ishmaelites & all the descendants of Keturah. So yes, he is "the father of many nations" biologically.

But the other point I made is really more devastating to Dick's claim: The biblical ascribes the descent of many other people besides Israel to Adam.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Opderbeck
  To: Charles Carrigan
  Cc: ;
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

  Why does Eve being the "mother of all the living" have to mean something biological? If Abraham was the "father of many nations" (Gen. 17:4), can everyone in all of those nations trace their biological ancestry directly back exclusively to Abraham?

  On 3/21/07, Charles Carrigan <> wrote:
    So "Mother of All the Living" really only meant "Mother of All of Us Israelites and a Few Offshoots Way Back When" ???

>>> "Dick Fischer" <> 3/21/2007 11:18 AM >>>
    Eve was the mother, as Adam was the father of the Israelites for whom Genesis was written and to whom it was directed. We Christians are free to read their mail so to speak, but it was not written initially for us. It is this tendency we have to read ourselves into Jewish history that continues to get us into hermeneutical holes. As far back as I can go is one great grandfather named Pfizer (changed to "Fisher" at Ellis Island) who was a captain in the Prussian Army, or so I've been told. Who his wife was I have no idea. But the Israelites had the benefit of genealogical records that reached all the way back to their earliest ancestor Adam.

    Dick Fischer

    Dick Fischer , Genesis Proclaimed Association

    Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

    -----Original Message-----
    From: [] On Behalf Of George Murphy
    Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:15 PM
    To: Bill Hamilton;
    Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

    How was Adam's wife "the mother of all living" (Gen.3:20) if Adam wasn't the father of all living?


      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Bill Hamilton

      To: Gregory Arago ;

      Cc: Glenn Morton

      Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:22 PM

      Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

      The ASA statement of faith references the historic Christian creeds, which don't, as far as I know, explicitly require a belief in Adam and Eve. So strictly speaking, I suppose you could be an ASA member without believing in Adam and Eve. Having said that, I will state that _I_ believe that there were specific persons Adam and Eve. In spite of the objections raised by Glenn, I like Dick Fischer's view that Adam lived in Mesopotamia about 7000 years ago. For reference, the objections raised by Glenn include

      1. Under Dick's scenario we are not all descended from Adam. Glenn sees that view as an excuse for racism. I don't, because of the many laws, commandments etc. given throughout Scripture detailing how we are to treat our fellow human beings

      2. Under Dick's scenario it's difficult to understand how a flood approaching the description of Genesis could have occurred (in southern Mesopotamia). I admit this is a difficulty, but that doesn't justify throwing out Dick's scenario

      Bill Hamilton
      William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
      248.652.4148 (home) 248.821.8156 (mobile)
      "...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Gregory Arago <>
      Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:49:07 AM
      Subject: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

      It is well known that ASA once issued an unambiguous statement: 'We believe in creation!' Would ASA be willing to follow that important, courageous clarification up with a further statement: 'We believe in Adam and Eve!' ? This is one of my main questions for all theistic evolutionists (TE's).

      G. Arago


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Received on Wed Mar 21 20:13:28 2007

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