Re: [asa] The empirical basis of knowledge

From: David F Siemens <>
Date: Mon Mar 19 2007 - 13:57:43 EDT

What I am most sure of are matters which are nonempirical--tautologies,
whether logical or semantic. Most of the empirical matters I think I know
come from reports of others who have observed them or confirmed the
statements of theoretical derivations.

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:24:39 -0600 Merv <> writes:
> Glenn Morton wrote:
> > I will challenge people
> > over the next 24 hours to name one thing which they KNOW to be
> true which
> > does not have an empirical basis. Example.
> >
> >
> > So, floor is open to challenges of this kind. I claimed that
> empirical data
> > is all we have upon which to know things. Now is your chance to
> disprove
> > that statement. And if you cant, then this will demonstrate the
> need for
> > Biblical empirical verification.
> >
> > glenn
> >
> Okay, Glenn How about this one: "The only real knowledge we can
> have
> must come from empirical evidence." Actually, while I may be
> inclined
> to agree in some ways with that statement, I am not the one who made
> it. You did. So your claim to know this is an answer to your own
> challenge. There is no empirical evidence you can present to
> address
> this since it is the necessity empirical evidence itself that is in
> question --- UNLESS you insist that a lack of a non-philosophical
> counter example counts as a kind of "empirical" evidence. But if
> you
> are standing on a mere failure of your opponents to produce a
> counter-example, that seems weak at best. And yet you seem to be
> claiming quite strongly to know this. What is your empirical basis
> for this knowledge claim?
> And I am still interested in your own take, not only on floating
> axe-heads but the sun standing still in the sky & such things.
> Those
> are straight-forward claims in Scripture the latter of which is
> physically fantastical -- and would seem to have no empirical basis
> except for our faith in the Scriptural testimony by itself. Since I
> have only had time to read a small fraction of your lengthy posts, I
> apologize if you've already thoroughly hashed this elsewhere.
> I am not just being rhetorical in all this -- I really want to know.
> Either I need to be desperately praying -- "God, I believe; help
> thou
> my unbelief", or I need to pray: "God, thank you for the human
> faculty
> of reason -- help me to use it to your glory." (or most likely I
> need
> to pray both prayers.)
> --Merv
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Received on Mon Mar 19 14:21:02 2007

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