Marcus Ross Re: [asa] Believing Scripture but Playing by Science’s Rules

From: James Mahaffy <>
Date: Mon Feb 12 2007 - 15:37:51 EST


I was going to post this to the list and found that someone already
had. I would not
take the same position as Terry, but I like what Terry said about not
being able
to always resolve the conflicts. Sometimes I see some on this group
that the only solution is to accept evolution as it is taught in
textbooks, without
even acknowledging that it is sometimes tied to a strong secularism.
most of you may not be working with a different paradigm in your

It would not be fair to ask Marcus to work totally in a new paradigm
that has
not (at least yet) gained the acceptance (some of us will say never
will - but
that is another story). Although YEC, I am not a theistic
evolutionist, but I still need
to know and work within the accepted framework. I would love to use
the word
creation instead of nature in an article but I know it would NOT fly.

When I told Marcus that I would like to share the article with you,
asked if it was fair, he had this to say:

The article
is basically fair, though it pits "paleontology" against "creation" as
differing paradigms. I would prefer the terms "naturalism" and
"biblical theism" or "YEC" as the paradigms. After all, paleo is a
discipline (not a paradigm), and not inherently tied to either. The
writer often contrasts "science" with "creationism" (and other similar
formulations), which is not accurate.

I will not suggest to Marcus that he join this forum much as I would
love to have good communication between someone like Marcus and this
I just sadly see this ASA forum as too unfriendly to YEC folks - sorry
that is
the way I see it) but Marcus may
like to see what you said on the ASA archives at url:
I will bcc this to him.

>>> On 2/12/2007 at 1:30 PM, in message
<>, "Terry M. Gray"
<> wrote:
> Ok, ok. I confess!
> So I too believe in and strive for a unity of knowledge. But I too,

> when it comes to human evolution, have a somewhat divided mind. I've

> called it "cognitive dissonance". I see nothing wrong with the
> scientific arguments for human evolution. I am also convinced that
> scripture teaches a special creation of Adam and Eve (perhaps not
> necessarily their bodies). On the surface (and well under the
> surface) those two views are at odds with each other. I've struggled

> over the years with you all and with the churches that I've been
> associated with to find a suitable solution that satisfies both. I've
> yet to hear of one (sorry to both Glenn and Dick--you've yet to
> convince me). Thus, I remain in this state of having a divided mind

> on this--I let the science speak for itself (and I fully believe that
> my science and it's methodology is rooted in a Christian worldview)

> and I let the scripture speak for itself (of course, within a certain
> theological and exegetical tradition that I also am convinced is
> Historically, I have taken my cue from Davis Young's ideas expressed

> in Christianity and the Age of the Earth where he argues that if we

> can't even find ways to have our interpretations of scripture to
> agree with themselves, how can we expect to always be able to get our
> science and our interpretations of scripture to agree. I confess that
> there is a unity (in scripture itself and between scripture and
> creation) but I admit that I can't always solve the problems. Such
> problems don't lead to doubt and unbelief (although they do for
> some), but to a recognition of my own (our own) limited knowledge.
> So, while I don't have the issue that Ross has, because I don't
> believe that scripture teaches us about the age of the earth. I don't
> necessarily despise his epistemology here. I think he has a much more
> pragmatic view of science--these are the rules, this is the
> framework, this is what scientists believe today, so if I'm going to

> join in I have to buy into the rules, the framework, the beliefs--
> when I'm doing science.
> I'm not sure I would ever put it the way he does, because I believe

> that scientific methodology is rooted in a Christian worldview and
> leads us to some knowledge of the truth. So there is a dissonance, a

> recognized conflict, but with a belief that it is ultimately
> TG
> ________________
> Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
> Computer Support Scientist
> Chemistry Department
> Colorado State University
> Fort Collins, CO 80523
> (o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
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Received on Mon Feb 12 15:38:43 2007

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