Re: [asa] Moral law - Francis Collins

From: David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
Date: Sun Dec 31 2006 - 17:09:59 EST

*Whether Gentiles obey the law because they know what to do intuitively or
whether they obey it because they know it is the law makes no
difference. Whether you eat your porridge because you know it is good for
you or because Mother tells you to eat it in the long run is unimportant.*

It makes a big difference to the legitimacy of the rules. A rule is
ultimately legitimate only if it is connected with something beyond merely
the power of the person who promulgates it. Otherwise, Nietzsche was right,
and law is nothing more than a particular arbitrary expression of the will
to power.

On 12/31/06, Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Iain:
>
>
>
> Whether Gentiles obey the law because they know what to do intuitively or
> whether they obey it because they know it is the law makes no difference.
> Whether you eat your porridge because you know it is good for you or
because
> Mother tells you to eat it in the long run is unimportant.
>
>
>
> If you choose to drive 35 miles an hour because it seems like a safe speed
> to you or whether you drive it because it is the posted speed won't make
any
> difference to the highway patrol who won't give you a ticket regardless of
> your knowledge. If your inner conscience thinks 60 mph is okay, you're
> going to be pulled over whether you know the posted speed or not.
>
>
>
> I do not see in the passage quoted any implication that the Gentiles were
> all blessed with an inner guidance system that would enable them to obey
the
> law even though they may have had no idea what that law was.
>
>
>
>
> Dick Fischer
>
> Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Iain Strachan
> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:37 PM
> To: Dick Fischer
> Cc: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] Moral law - Francis Collins
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/31/06, Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Johan:
>
>
>
> Although a renowned expert on DNA, Collins is probably off the mark on
this
> issue as was Lewis before him. What is being referred to as "moral law"
is
> likely our innate sense of fairness. We seem to know if we have been
> treated unfairly in any instance. And Lord knows there is no fairness in
> life. Doing either good or bad in any instance is more likely rooted (as
it
> is in animals) in learned behavior. Okay, de Waal goofs on this too.
> Reward an animal with food and it learns whatever system of "morals" you
> want to instill in it. Amazon headhunters learned it was okay to shrink
> human heads. Thus our morals are learned from our rewards and punishments
> more likely than from any innate or God-given sense of right and wrong.
>
>
>
> The "moral law" is simply, do what God says to do. And God didn't speak
to
> mankind until he decided to speak to Adam about 7,000 years ago. Do what
I
> tell you Adam, or in the biblical example, don't do what I tell you not to
> do. That's the moral law. Do it God's way not the way that seems right
> to you at the time through whatever value system you may have acquired
> through learning or experience, or even what may be a "gut feeling." Your
> inborn senses are unreliable as moral compasses. That's why God gave us a
> Bible and didn't leave it up to any inborn sense of right and wrong.
>
>
>
> What you say would appear to be contradicted by Romans 2:14-15
>
> 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things
> required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do
not
> have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are
written
> on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
thoughts
> now accusing, now even defending them.)
>
> which as I see it implies that the requirements of the law are written on
> the hearts even of those who do not have the law.
>
> I'm having a problem squaring that with what you say about God giving us a
> Bible and not leaving it up to an inborn sense of right and wrong.
>
> Iain

-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Web:  http://www.davidopderbeck.com
Blog:  http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
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Received on Sun Dec 31 17:10:26 2006

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