RE: [asa] Moral law - Francis Collins

From: Alexanian, Moorad <>
Date: Sun Dec 31 2006 - 16:17:45 EST

If man, is the measuring device that determines that animals also behave morally and altruistically, what measuring device initially measured and established that man behaves morally and altruistically?


It is difficult to accept that science has anything to do with moral law unless one clearly defines what science is and what science is not.




From: on behalf of Dick Fischer
Sent: Sun 12/31/2006 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Moral law - Francis Collins

Hi Johan:


Although a renowned expert on DNA, Collins is probably off the mark on this issue as was Lewis before him. What is being referred to as "moral law" is likely our innate sense of fairness. We seem to know if we have been treated unfairly in any instance. And Lord knows there is no fairness in life. Doing either good or bad in any instance is more likely rooted (as it is in animals) in learned behavior. Okay, de Waal goofs on this too. Reward an animal with food and it learns whatever system of "morals" you want to instill in it. Amazon headhunters learned it was okay to shrink human heads. Thus our morals are learned from our rewards and punishments more likely than from any innate or God-given sense of right and wrong.


The "moral law" is simply, do what God says to do. And God didn't speak to mankind until he decided to speak to Adam about 7,000 years ago. Do what I tell you Adam, or in the biblical example, don't do what I tell you not to do. That's the moral law. Do it God's way - not the way that seems right to you at the time through whatever value system you may have acquired through learning or experience, or even what may be a "gut feeling." Your inborn senses are unreliable as moral compasses. That's why God gave us a Bible and didn't leave it up to any inborn sense of right and wrong.


Dick Fischer

Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History <>


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Johan Jammart
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: [asa] Moral law - Francis Collins


I have read an other review by Korthof of Francis Collins book "The Language of God" (

Korthof critique the argument of the moral law, claiming that some animals (especialy chimps) have altruism and kindness in their behaviour, that altruism and kindness can be explain by evolution, that morality have evolved. He also state:"The other unique human properties awareness of right and wrong, language, self-awareness and the ability to imagine the future (Collins page 23) are found also in animals." Korthof cite and refer amply to the books of Frans de Waal. Frans de Waal seems to found a lot of parallel between behavior of human and chimps (an other example: the capacity of forgiveness and peace making of the chimps).

What are your opinions on this? Have science disprove the argument of moral law? Have morality evolved? Are human the not the only specie capable of awareness of right and wrong, self-awareness, forgiveness, peacemaking and the ability to imagine the future? Do you have have ever heard about Frans de Waal?

Thanks in advance for your insight.



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Received on Sun Dec 31 16:19:23 2006

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