Re: [asa] Oil and Tubalcain

From: Michael Roberts <>
Date: Sun Dec 31 2006 - 15:56:53 EST

I am happy to accept that most of Gen 1-11 is based on historical events but the "information" there is so sparse that it is not possible to identify either the places or times . It has been tried before with no conclusive result.

Even on Gen 12-50 it is difficult to place the patriarchs beyond saying that they fit into 2nd Millennium ANE, hence I regard those characters as real people. (and Noah and his watery journey)

I think you and Glenn are wasting your time and need to be more relaxed about the history of Genesis and concentrate on its meaning. The bible is historical but doesn't give the historical information you need. There is more in the later OT and on the whole the NT gives a fair amount - but still is incomplete in places as I found out in Turkey

The Bible was originally written for a very different culture and does not attempt "Modernist" history as we have had it in the last 2 centuries


----- Original Message -----
  From: Dick Fischer
  To: ASA
  Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:27 PM
  Subject: RE: [asa] Oil and Tubalcain

  Ah, the old hit and run play. (That's a baseball term, Michael.) Having just (finally) finished my manuscript, Historical Genesis: from Adam to Abraham, I can categorically state that both of these esteemed gentlemen are prematurely wrong.

  As Confucius said, "Those who say it can't be done should stay out of way of those who are doing it."

  Rather than refute point by point, which I have done here frequently, let me just ask all to exercise patience and wait until the book comes out - then let's see what you have to say. That way there will be less to retract.

  For any Septuagenarians out there or for those who have just checked into a hospice, I will be happy to email you the entire manuscript as a Word attachment in a lump (if you have the space on your server). Just please keep it a little under your fur hat until it's published.

  Dick Fischer

  Genesis Proclaimed Association

  Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History

  Glenn wrote:

    . > I will also point people to an article on which I


> challenging the concept that Adam is neolithic. It challenges the claim

> that

> iron working was going on in the Tubalcain incident.

> See


> I will not stick around to debate the issue.

  This is not much to debate on the issue as we are only dealing with half a

  dozen words in Gen 4.22. These give no historical markers for anything.

  Further we should see Genesis for what it is. It does not give a historical

  record of early society as it just gives some snippets. What evidence is

  there that the author of Genesis believed he was giving a historical account

  in the sense we would define history today? A very good article on

  historiography in the Old Testament is to be found in the IVP Dictionary of

  the Old Testament - historical books. The writer makes it clear that OT

  historical writers were not writing straight history but were using history

  for theological purposes. They are general and imprecise and we go wrong to

  impose Modern ideas of history on to them and that is a cause of so much

  scepticism of the bible over the last 200 years. Another article in DOT -

  hist books is on large numbers and there the author states that the authors

  were "employing numerical hyperbole in the narrative accounts" for uses both

  polemical and theological. Now apply that to the big numbers in Numbers and

  the superannuated Patriarchs! Now this sounds liberal doesn't it? But the

  author is D Fouts OT prof of Bryan College Dayton. Perhaps if we applied the

  same principles to early Genesis we would have no problem with billions of

  years and wont get bogged down whether Tubal cain was Neolithic or a cousin

  of Neanderthals!


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Received on Sun Dec 31 16:10:54 2006

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