RE: [asa] Moral law - Francis Collins

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Sun Dec 31 2006 - 15:15:12 EST

Hi Iain:


Whether Gentiles obey the law because they know what to do intuitively
or whether they obey it because they know it is the law makes no
difference. Whether you eat your porridge because you know it is good
for you or because Mother tells you to eat it in the long run is


If you choose to drive 35 miles an hour because it seems like a safe
speed to you or whether you drive it because it is the posted speed
won't make any difference to the highway patrol who won't give you a
ticket regardless of your knowledge. If your inner conscience thinks 60
mph is okay, you're going to be pulled over whether you know the posted
speed or not.


I do not see in the passage quoted any implication that the Gentiles
were all blessed with an inner guidance system that would enable them to
obey the law even though they may have had no idea what that law was.


Dick Fischer

Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History



-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of Iain Strachan
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:37 PM
To: Dick Fischer
Subject: Re: [asa] Moral law - Francis Collins



On 12/31/06, Dick Fischer <> wrote:

Hi Johan:


Although a renowned expert on DNA, Collins is probably off the mark on
this issue as was Lewis before him. What is being referred to as "moral
law" is likely our innate sense of fairness. We seem to know if we have
been treated unfairly in any instance. And Lord knows there is no
fairness in life. Doing either good or bad in any instance is more
likely rooted (as it is in animals) in learned behavior. Okay, de Waal
goofs on this too. Reward an animal with food and it learns whatever
system of "morals" you want to instill in it. Amazon headhunters
learned it was okay to shrink human heads. Thus our morals are learned
from our rewards and punishments more likely than from any innate or
God-given sense of right and wrong.


The "moral law" is simply, do what God says to do. And God didn't speak
to mankind until he decided to speak to Adam about 7,000 years ago. Do
what I tell you Adam, or in the biblical example, don't do what I tell
you not to do. That's the moral law. Do it God's way - not the way
that seems right to you at the time through whatever value system you
may have acquired through learning or experience, or even what may be a
"gut feeling." Your inborn senses are unreliable as moral compasses.
That's why God gave us a Bible and didn't leave it up to any inborn
sense of right and wrong.

What you say would appear to be contradicted by Romans 2:14-15

14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things
required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do
not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are
written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and
their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

which as I see it implies that the requirements of the law are written
on the hearts even of those who do not have the law.

I'm having a problem squaring that with what you say about God giving us
a Bible and not leaving it up to an inborn sense of right and wrong.


To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Sun Dec 31 15:15:52 2006

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sun Dec 31 2006 - 15:15:52 EST