Re: [asa] RE: Public questions for Denyse O'Leary

From: Bill Hamilton <>
Date: Fri Dec 22 2006 - 19:23:38 EST

Charles Hodge, in "What is Darwinism" objected to Darwinism because of its
insistence on no design. At one point in the book he said he diddn't object to
a view of evolution that admitted the possibility of divine design. I don't
know whether he said it specifically, but in Hodge's mind the distinction
between Darwinism and evolution seems to be that Darwinism insists that design
plays no part in the development of life.

--- Gregory Arago <> wrote:

> Denyse is not an intellectual heavyweight. Most at ASA know this and it needs
> not repeating - she is a journalist and not a scientist or scholar. She
> admits this herself, noting however, that her words in the pop press reach
> further than many at ASA combined. Such is the situation in an internet press
> world - how many ASAers have their own blog?
> My issue here is not about Denyse, but with PvM's knowledge of Darwinism.
> Does he really think that Darwinism is not 'opposed' to Christian faith *in
> any way*? This is debatable simply given that many Darwinists are themselves
> opposed to Christian faith. But the fact that not all Darwinists are opposed
> to Christian faith gives PvM a platform to argue.
> My question is simple: why defend Darwinism rather than evolutionism or
> natural selectionism? The first option presents a single person's views,
> which were indeed based on an agnostic and even sometimes atheist
> perspective. This is not in question - I've got his autobiography beside me
> if someone wants to discuss his 'science' with his beliefs. Charles Robert
> Darwin is not an archetypal theologian for Christians to follow; he did not
> become a theologian indeed! Why Christians feel obligated to defend the
> non-scientific parts of his contribution to knowlege is difficult to fathom.
> The foundational viewpoint worth arguing about is evolutionism, which seems
> to have won the lot (i.e. is predominantly uncontested) at ASA, even William
> Dembski! (Check out the 'technological evolution' contest offered by Dembski
> at UD.)
> PvM's defense of Darwinism seems to echo ignorant defenses of IDism. 'If
> only you first understood our views *then* you could criticize them.' Yet the
> fact remains there is much of Darwin's theology that has been criticized, and
> much of Malthus' too for that matter. Darwin is not immune to theological
> criticism and thus there are aspects of Darwinism that should not be
> celebrated but put in their place.
> Denyse writes: "Darwinism is the creation story." Yet we know here from Ted
> Davis, following Mary Midgley, that it is not Darwinism but 'evolution(ism)'
> that is actually considered as 'the modern day creation story.' Getting stuck
> on Darwin seems to be both a tendency of IDists and also those who would
> defend evolutionism to the depths, even when it runs against their Christian
> faith.
> Arago
> PvM <> wrote:
> Denyse O'Leary, has written a poorly reasoned posting on UcD. While it is
> mostly based on her flawed understanding of Darwinism, it does have something
> of interest to ASA.
> Let's just correct Denyse's obvious misconception that there is a
> conflict between Darwinism and traditional religions.
> Denyse, science and religion are traditionally not in conflict with
> eachother, unless one goes beyond the concept of science.
> Until Denyse familiarize herself with Darwinism, I can see why she may
> perceive that there is a conflict between science and her faith. An
> intellectual lightweight indeed.... Blame others but fail to take
> responsibility for her own ignorance about Darwinism.
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Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
248.652.4148 (home) 248.821.8156 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31

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Received on Fri Dec 22 19:24:08 2006

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