Re: Fwd: [asa] The Swift-Boating of Judge Jones

From: Janice Matchett <janmatch@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu Dec 14 2006 - 13:06:48 EST

At 10:50 AM 12/14/2006, David Opderbeck wrote:
> I know the court system allows judges to use briefs from either
> side, but this much plagiarism would get a student kicked out of Dordt.
>
>Jim -- it isn't "plagiarism" in this context, and it isn't in any
>way unusual for a judge to adopt one side's findings and not the
>other sides. In trials, there are winners and losers. If you
>search my name and "Kitzmiller" or "Judge Jones" in the archives of
>this list, you'll see that last year I engaged in some lengthy
>arguments with Pim about the soundness of Judge Jones' opinion. In
>short, I think the conclusion of an establishment clause violation
>was right, but the philosophical discussion of "science" was
>incorrect and misplaced. So I am no apologist for this particular
>judicial opinion. However, I agree 100% with Pim that this
>name-calling, which is based on a fundamental misunderstanding or
>misrepresentation of how the legal system works, is wrong.
>
>I'm rather disgusted with how this whole thing has been rolled out
>over the last several days by ID advocates (not disgusted at you
>personally, Jim, but at the PR campaign more generally by the
>Discovery Institute and other big-time ID advocates). They need to
>get over Kitzmiller, put the legal gamesmanship aside, and do some
>serious writing and research.

@ This is my problem with the judge:

May 22, 2006 - Judge Jones reveals his false beliefs (premise for his
ruling) about the Anti-Establishment Clause in the Constitution:

"The founders believed that true religion was not something handed
down by a church or contained in a Bible, but was to be found through
free, rational inquiry. They possessed a great confidence in an
individual's ability to understand the world and its most fundamental
laws through the exercise of his or her reason. This core set of
beliefs led the founders, who constantly engaged and questioned
things, to secure their idea of religious freedom by barring any
alliance between church and state." ~U.S. District Judge John E.
Jones in his May 2006 commencement address to 500 graduates at his
alma mater, Dickinson College.

He needs to click my screen name and get up to speed. :)

<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752301/posts?page=15#15>15
posted on 12/12/2006 12:10:35 PM EST by
<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752301//~matchettpi/>Matchett-PI
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752301/posts?page=15#15

<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752301/posts>Judge<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752301/posts>
copied ACLU in anti-design ruling
<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752301//^http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53330>WorldNetDaily.com
^ | December 12, 2006 | Art Moore
Posted on 12/12/2006 11:52:13 AM EST by editor-surveyor
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752301/posts

~ Janice

>
>On 12/14/06, James Mahaffy
><<mailto:mahaffy@dordt.edu>mahaffy@dordt.edu > wrote:
>James Mahaffy (<mailto:mahaffy@dordt.edu>
>mahaffy@dordt.edu) Phone: 712 722-6279
>498 4th Ave NE
>Biology Department FAX : 712
>722-1198
>Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
> >>> PvM < <mailto:pvm.pandas@gmail.com>pvm.pandas@gmail.com>
> 12/13/06 11:03 AM >>>
>
>[snip]
>
>The 'argument' is that more than 90% of the Judge's ruling is copied
>'almost verbatim' from the ACLU's brief.
>
>Some interesting comments
>
>1. Using the DI's concept of 'almost verbatim' one has to reach the
>inevitable conclusion that 100% of the human genome is almost verbatim
>found in chimpanzees.
>
>Don't we call this ad hominen. It has NOTHING to do with the question
>of maybe copying too much of one side's briefs.
>
>
>2. The finding ignores that the Judge, while using the findings of
>fact, placed them in a coherent argument, while adding his own damning
>comments.
>3. Legally speaking, the use of 'proposed findings of fact' is well
>established.
>
>
>You may be right on 3 - but this much coping may be frowned on.
>I know the court system allows judges to use briefs from either side,
>but this much plagiarism would get a student kicked out of Dordt. At
>least it may mean that it was more the good argument of the ACLU and
>not the brilliant interpretation of the judge.
>
>Pim said
>So it seems that the DI is just annoyed how they messed up the
>Kitzmiller situation. Interestingly enough, the court record contains
>how amateurish the DI was in filing their amicus brief
>
>to which I said
>Maybe, but it may just show how irritated some people were. I believe
>that
>ID urged the school board not to make this a legal case. There are some
>people
>that appear to know the law in that camp. There are better and there are
>worse
>cases on which to try and establish a legal precedent.
>
>Snip all the kdv transcripts.
>
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>
>
>
>
>--
>
>David W. Opderbeck
>Web: http://www.davidopderbeck.com
>Blog:
><http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html>http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
>MySpace (Music): http://www.myspace.com/davidbecke
>
>
>--
>David W. Opderbeck
>Web: <http://www.davidopderbeck.com>http://www.davidopderbeck.com
>Blog: http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
>MySpace
>(Music): <http://www.myspace.com/davidbecke>http://www.myspace.com/davidbecke

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Received on Thu Dec 14 13:07:21 2006

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