Re: [asa] Random and design

From: Janice Matchett <>
Date: Thu Dec 07 2006 - 19:09:33 EST

At 05:06 PM 12/7/2006, wrote:
> And just why would we want to define miracle as an act that
> violates natural law? Scripture itself never uses the term. It
> uses "signs" [semeia], "wonders" [terata], "mighty works"
> [dunameis], and "works" [erga]. For most of the history of the
> church, "miracles" were not considered violations. Augustine
> considered miracles not to be "contrary to nature" but rather
> "contrary to our knowledge of nature". And:
>"Isn't the daily course of nature itself a miracle, something to be
>wondered at? Everything is full of marvels and miracles, but they
>are so common that we regard them as cheap and of no account."
>(Perhaps we could paraphrase by saying the ID shouldn't look for
>fingerprints --it's ALL fingerprints?!)
>Historian Peter Harrison points out that it was only at the
>Reformation and beyond, especially with the "voluntarists" that
>miracles were given an independent status as evidence -- and thereby
>opened the door to Hume's critique. [See his "Miracles, early
>modern science, and rational religion" in Church History, 2006, v.
>75, p. 493-510].
>Karl V. Evans

@ A walk down memory lane:

Leading Christian Myths

#14 The supernatural exists.

Uh oh, what am I saying? Don't panic: I'm saying that we've all
fallen prey to the post-Enlightenment distinction between the natural
and the so-called supernatural. In other words, this is an artifical
category, one that has led to such silly ideas as that miracles (acts
of God) "violate natural law".

God works in and through the natural world and within its "laws" --
while some miracles are beyond human capacity to duplicate, they
hardly require any violation of nature's "laws" (other than perhaps,
creation ex nihilo, and even that is not certainly a "violation").

Put it this way: Why is it not a "violation" of the law of gravity
when I pick up a box? Why IS it such a violation when God picks up
that same box?

The inconsistency was invented of itself, and unfortunately, we
continue to let the debate continue on these terms, and this makes
our apologetic for things like the Resurrection more difficult than
it needs to be. ~
~ Janice Matchett - Thu Oct 19 2006 - 11:34:09 EDT - Nature's Laws /
Book of Job / Problem of

~ Janice

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Thu Dec 7 19:10:21 2006

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Thu Dec 07 2006 - 19:10:21 EST