Re: [asa] Lets move beyond straw men and uninformed opinion

From: James Mahaffy <>
Date: Fri Dec 01 2006 - 09:52:46 EST

> Yet Behe is someone who got grants and knew how to publish before he

> identified himself with the ID
> movement so hwen he suddenly gets different reviews he might be
> it right.
> PvM: What research has Behe done? What is his record on grants?

When Behe first became known, the first thing I did was check a journal
database and found he had
a bunch of peer reviewed articles. I wanted to know what type of
scientist he was.
That is course one of the reasons he has an impact.

While I don't know the specifics, like most researchers even at smaller
schools he was
getting grants to support his research. I know this in part because I
contacted him a
couple weeks ago (no I am not ID although I think some of them are
doing good work).

You may not like Behe's interest in explaining (or saying you can't
explain by standard Darwinian
theory) some of the complex cellular machinery - but anyone who has
taught cell biology and knows
some of that complexity knows it is a good issue that is largely
avoided in part from philosophical reasons.
Behe also has no problem with common descent (I do) so you are perhaps
picking on the wrong person.
Pick on one of the YEC in the ID camp (but then read enough to know who
they are). They
would make a better straw man.

> Reading of Kuhn would suggest that material outside the
> accepted paradigms are not accepted that quickly. It might be
> story if the poster(s) to the ASA list were picking on Nelson or
> younger ID person that had not been publishing. A similar
> comment was made that Meyer's publication was wrongly accredited by
> peer reviewed journal. Look you may not like these guys (at least
> is the way it sure sounds), but some of these folks are doing their
> in regular academic circles.
> PvM: The poor quality of Meyer's paper has caused some to suggest
> perhaps the peer review had not been as thorough.

Is it really the poor quality or is that you think his thesis is
untenable. Have
you even read the article? There are
two sides to the story and it could equally be read as others were
horrified that their journal had published something by an ID person.
before we get into that we should at least read what the editor said in
his defense.
Have you?

> 3. I see little talk of some of the interesting things in the fossil
> record.
> What about stasis?
> What about the appearance of angiosperms?
> I actually know something about some of these but I would like
> discussion to go beyond the simple opinions that I see too often in
> group.
> Stasis is actually quite understandable from an evolutionary
> Think 'neutral evolution'. What about angiosperms?

People talk about the Cambrian sudden appearance, but few mention the
sudden appearance of the angiosperms. My training was in paleobotany
and I have read something in the area.

> 4. If you want to talk about ID or YEC why don't you actually invite
> one of their better minds to this forum, treat them with
> courtesy and have some dialog. Somehow we can do that at our
> but don't seem able to on this forum.
> I could say more but I think I will quit.
> PvM: I'd love to hear an IDer explain his/her position and be willing
> address critical questions.

James Mahaffy (          Phone: 712 722-6279
498 4th Ave NE
Biology Department                                     FAX :  712
Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
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Received on Fri Dec 1 09:53:38 2006

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