Re: [asa] Number of biologists who are TE

From: Terry M. Gray <>
Date: Wed Sep 13 2006 - 14:33:45 EDT


I will need to spend some time with this Covenant study to reply more
intelligently so I won't be helpful with respect to today's class,
however, I'm fairly confident that you can't be a TE and teach at
Covenant (in terms of the way denominational study committees have
interpreted the church confessions)--this may be true at other
Coalition colleges. Supposedly, there is the rib test at Wheaton
which precludes TE (according to some).

Of course, we've got some very slippery language here--I'm not sure
that all the nuances are cut through in the survey.
My position, for example, at least as articulated a few years ago and
rejected by the OPC, promoted animal ancestry of Adam's body and a
special creation of his soul (a la Warfield). Some TE's call this
special creation. My OPC brothers called it TE.

I am adamant, as another example, that there is no such thing as
forces inherent in the universe and that all such processes are
divinely controlled. Apart from the theological commitment to divine
governance, though, "my" universe looks just like the universe of
those who hold to inherent forces.

And just to nitpick on your comments. I would not put ID on the same
axis as YEC, OEC, or TE. As Ted has pointed out (and as both Dembski
and Behe admitted to at the Messiah ASA meeting). TE's can hold to
ID. Behe is as much a TE as Asa Gray ever was.


On Sep 13, 2006, at 9:54 AM, James Mahaffy wrote:

> Folks,
> I getting the general impression especially from ASA meetings (which
> may not be a representative sample) that it is probably fair enough to
> say that most college biology teachers are TE. Is that right? I
> suspect
> next might be ID and least YEC. Have there been good studies of this?
> I did a quick web search and a study by covenant college
> would seem to
> indicate that maybe my assumption is not right at least with Coalition
> colleges.
> On the other hand Jerry Bergman
> cites a lot
> of studies that would tend to back my statement. I have the
> impression
> that Jerry does do good research and a quick glance would indicate
> that
> he is fairly quoting the surveys.
> And yes - I am asking because I am dealing with this in a paleo class
> this afternoon. And I am not TE nor YEC nor ID. I am an agnostic who
> likes and respects the scholarship of some of my TE and ID
> brethren and
> appreciates the strong commitment of some of the YEC folks (even if I
> can not buy the young earth explanations or lack of them.
> Blind copy to a colleague who teaches a course in Perspectives (in
> Origins) at Dordt. [that way his e-mail unlike mine is not out there
> for anyone to grab}
> --
> James Mahaffy ( Phone: 712 722-6279
> 498 4th Ave NE
> Biology Department FAX : 712
> 722-1198
> Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
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Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
Computer Support Scientist
Chemistry Department
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
(o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801

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Received on Wed Sep 13 14:34:03 2006

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