Re: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?

From: Rich Blinne <>
Date: Thu Sep 07 2006 - 13:53:27 EDT

On 9/7/06, Janice Matchett <> wrote:
> At 03:48 PM 9/6/2006, *James Mahaffy wrote:
> *
> On 9/5/2006 at 10:50 PM, *Roger G. Olson wrote:*
> Well, what are we gonna do, Merv? *What about the poor ignorant slob
> who's led to Christ under the false pretext* of some despicable
> representative of a YEC "ministry" who proffers YEC propaganda as "proof" of
> the veracity of Christianity? What happens when this poor slob studies some
> science
> and realizes that YEC is cobblers? Uh oh! There goes the faith! ... *~
> Roger*
> *@ *Phillipians Chapter 1
> (vs 15) "Some preach Christ even of envy and strife..." The motive behind
> some preaching is wrong. As long as they are not preaching a different
> gospel, but are preaching a pure gospel, then "Christ is proclaimed".
> (vs 16) "Set for the defence of __the gospel__".
> (vs 17) Paul again refers to the selfish motives of some.
> (vs 18) "What then"? What reeeally matters? Paul didn't approve of their
> attitude, yet, _if "the good news" (Christ) was proclaimed_, he was happy.
> Those listening to "the good news" have no way of knowing if the preacher
> is preaching for the wrong reasons (ie: selfish motives). They hear the
> gospel.
> There always was, and always will be preachers who preach "Truth" with bad
> motives and people who worship with wrong motives, also.
> Puny man can't hinder God, or thwart the plan he is unfolding in the
> least.

Yes, God can and does overcome our disobedience. What you quoted deals with
preaching the truth for bad motives. On the other hand, what we are
discussing is communication that is done for the best of motives but is not
the truth. Futhermore, I would contend that it is not the Gospel when a
Moonie who believes in ID/YEC is held as being orthodox and an Evangelical
who is not is branded a heretic. The Gospel is made into the idol of YEC.
Because YEC gets so conflated with the Gospel when the former is discovered
to be false so does the latter. When I ceased to be a YEC I clearly
understood the distinction between the Gospel and YEC and thus avoided the
faith crisis discussed here. Most prominent YEC proponents on the other hand
do not make that vital distinction. Take Ken Ham's "eulogy" of Steve

> Sadly, Steve Irwin wasn't a creationist. He mentioned evolution and the
> concept of millions of years many times in his television programs. For
> example, he once told Larry King on CNN's *Larry King Live* cable program
> that crocodiles had been around for 200 million years, and if you weren't
> careful they would kill you.
> Over the years, I've had people tell me they sent Steve Irwin some of our
> creation books—who knows if he ever read any of them. At least these AiG
> supporters tried to witness to this very famous and brave man. Our hearts
> and prayers go out for his wife (an American, by the way) and their young
> children.
Apparently what was witnessed to by AiG supporters was not the Gospel but
Creationism. Note what was bemoaned was that Irwin wasn't a Creationist
rather than he wasn't a Christian.

  "....Have there been any good studies on what causes US students to move
> toward unbelief? ..." *~ James*
> @ It's not possible to lose or move away from something you never had in
> the first place.
> *John 6:65,* *"For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to
> Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father."
> *Likewise, it's not possible to thwart what Christ said He would do:
> *John 6:44,* *"No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws
> him; and I will raise _him_ up on the last day."
> *Your fears are unfounded.

Maybe we should not fear for the ones who appear to lose faith but we should
for those who cause it. [Note: I am a Calvinist and know where you are
going. It should be noted that according to Calvinist theology
predestination does not abrogate responsibility as illustrated by the
following Scripture.]

> At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest
> in the kingdom of heaven?"
> He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: "I
> tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you
> will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself
> like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
> "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.
> But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it
> would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and
> to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

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Received on Thu Sep 7 13:55:23 2006

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