Re: [asa] dialog with YEC brethern

From: Don Nield <>
Date: Wed Sep 06 2006 - 02:27:32 EDT

I sympathize with both Roger and Merv.
I think that we should forthright in demonstrating to YECs that their
position is not identical with Christianity and is in fact
counter-productive to the propagation of the gospel of Jesus Christ,
being in discord with God's Book of Works.

Roger G. Olson wrote:

>>Roger G. Olson wrote:
>>>This is very depressing. We all get so very sanctimonious on this list.
>>>However, sometimes a blunt statement is necessary. YEC is crap. And
>>>dangerous, despicable, potentially faith-ending crap. Pussy-footing
>>>around it doesn't help. It's not helpful to refer to it as "this sort
>>>science", since it's not "science" at all.
>>>I'm tired of the fearful tolerance of stupidity from some of the
>>>participants. Merv spoke of there being few YEC (save Vernon) who will
>>>taste the sting of our retorts. It doesn't matter. YEC is a despicable
>>>lie and should not be appeased.
>>>The main purpose of the ASA is to have dialog on a reasoned faith. YEC
>>>not a reasoned faith, but rather a ginned-up rhetoric machine by those
>>>"professionals" who are so weak in their faith that they feel they must
>>>lead the naive laypeople astray.
>>>I know I'm a grumpy old man, and I apologize in advance. But, I'm sick
>>>the gills of evangelical academicians tip-toeing around the obvious.
>>>Heaven forbid we'd entertain the thought of offending anyone! How
>>Mount up the cavalry! When do we charge? Okay -- I admit (and this
>>is partly in shame -- & I'm not being sarcastic about that) that I am
>>one of these "pussy-footing" fools who probably cares more than he
>>should about avoiding conflict and keeping the peace as much as
>>possible. And you are right that Jesus didn't seem to mind calling it
>>like it was to the faces of anyone who cared to listen -- even those he
>>knew would prove dangerous enemies.
>>So why are the cannons getting set off before the enemy is even within
>>firing distance? The swords are sharpened -- now we have to work on
>>the "to their faces" part. So should we march into church this Sunday
>>with the heavy artillery? -- "you've turned my Father's house into a
>>house of mistaken science and theology!" -- overturn the pulpit as you
>>shout... I know this is a rhetorical scenario and that it just
>>'ain't gonna happen' because for better or worse, too many are just like
>>me. We are a little heavier on Ephesians 4:2,3 "Make every effort to
>>keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace..." than we are
>>on Luke 12:51 "Do you think I came to bring peace? .... no -- but
>>division..." I really do admire (even if I don't always agree with)
>>people like Dick Fisher or yourself who always seem ready to charge.
>>It is folks with those attitudes that tend to get things done never mind
>>the casualties. Or at least show some alarm about the casualties
>>mounting if we do nothing.
>>Yet my stronger cautionary & reflective self hangs back and wants to opt
>>for patience and perseverance which you probably see as a lack of
>>courage. Perhaps so -- but in any case I do admire those who take a
>>good cause and courageously run with it come what may. Great leaders
>>were probably never the ones who spent much time trying to "keep the
>>peace", and their notability (or notoriety), for those who chase that,
>>will long outlive that of the quiet and cautious. If the go-getters
>>are impatient for action, then if it be from God I'm sure the necessary
>>following will be forthcoming. But the quiet laborers in the
>>background may also contribute with their own gentle arts in ways that
>>I'm still convinced will be seen as good work in the day or reckoning.
>>Romans 12:6 and following says we have different gifts according to the
>>grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in
>>proportion to his faith. If serving, let him serve; if teaching ...
>>Perhaps the list could be extended ... if your gift is cleansing the
>>temple with whips -- do it with gusto ... if pussy-footing around
>>rebuilding among the ruins then glory in your gentleness. I'll bet
>>there is room for us all. I'm glad you grumpy ones are around.
>>You're sorely needed if not always appreciated.
>Well, what are we gonna do, Merv? Just be patient while the rhetoric
>machines of AiG, ICR,, grind out their screed to
>the naive layperson? What about the poor ignorant slob who's led to
>Christ under the false pretext of some despicable representative of a YEC
>"ministry" who proffers YEC propaganda as "proof" of the veracity of
>Christianity? What happens when this poor slob studies some science and
>realizes that YEC is cobblers? Uh oh! There goes the faith! Yes, we
>should all be more tolerant of our fellow Christians. Isn't it time we
>*stand* for something?

Donald A. Nield
Associate Professor, Department of Engineering Science
University of Auckland
Private Bag 92019
Auckland 1142, NEW ZEALAND
ph  +64 9 3737599 x87908 
fax +64 9 3737468
Courier address: 70 Symonds Street, Room 235 or 305
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Received on Wed Sep 6 02:27:57 2006

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