Re: [asa] The apostle warns of evolution

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Mon Sep 04 2006 - 11:02:12 EDT

Message1) "Since the fathers fell asleep" probably refers to the generation of the apostles - just one indication that II Peter was probably not written by Peter himself (though it contains material coming from him). It may have been the last of the NT books to be written. As Bob noted, II Peter is probably dependent on Jude rather tyhan vice versa.

2) Apropos Jon's 2d paragraph, our modern knowledge of the age of the earth puts the whole "delay of the parousia" problem in a different light. If the resurrection of Christ came only 4000 years after creation then a delay of 100 years, and certainly 2000, for his 2d coming seems kind of out of balance. But if the universe came into being 14 Gyr ago, 2000 years is no delay at all.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jon Tandy
  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:08 AM
  Subject: RE: [asa] The apostle warns of evolution

  The way I read it, Peter wasn't talking about secular philosophers at all, but the entrance of heretical beliefs into the church in contradiction to the teaching of the apostles. 2Pet 3:4 gives some of their words as "since the fathers fell asleep" and "beginning of the creation". This doesn't sound as if Peter is speaking of pagan philosophers, but rather those who had a religious background. My thought on reading this passage is that Peter was instead referring to Christian teachers who would come and (like Origen) deny the literal, apocalyptic, return of Christ. Peter's reference to creation, flood, and final judgment is used to establish the pattern that all things (creation, judgment by water, and judgment by fire) are done by the word of God, and are real events. This seems more an appeal to Christian thinkers who already accepted the first two (creation and flood) as real events, but who tried to spiritualize the second coming of Christ.

  One of the reasons people like Origen spiritualized away the second coming was their view that since it hadn't happened by the second or third century, some of the apparent immediate statements (like "I come quickly") in the scriptural texts needed to be understood spiritually, not literally. Peter addresses this by commenting that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years -- in other words, the timing of those immediate statements may be spiritualized, but the actual event of Christ's coming will be literal. The important fact was the event, not the timing. Funny that AIG can accept this idea in the second coming, but not in the creation.

  Jon Tandy

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Received on Mon Sep 4 11:03:04 2006

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