RE: The death of the RTB model

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Sun Feb 26 2006 - 12:59:46 EST

Hi Dave, you wrote:
Sure, Dick, there was a flood in Mesopotamia. Indeed, there seems, if my
memory serves, more than one, for flood deposits in different cities
were not simultaneous. There is still the problem of 8 people poling a
gigantic barge upstream. Additionally, I found a transportation map in
an atlas. Neither Tigris nor Euphrates, though long, was tagged as an
inland waterway. Ports are located on the Persian Gulf.
Inland waterways are natural coastal waterways formed when the ocean
builds protective sand barriers. No ocean action in Mesopotamia.
Cities in the southern part of Mesopotamia could not be built in close
proximity to either river as they would have been swept away every
Spring. The irrigation canals allowed them to locate their cities some
miles away from the river. The distance gave them some measure of
I take your claim that only the Adamic race, except for Noah and his 3
sons, perished as an indication that they were especially stupid,
lacking the good sense to run for the hills.
Did I say stupid? The evidence from their writing was that under the
influence of the Sumerians they became polytheistic over time, and as we
know, this is something God really doesn't like. The Sumerians were
located further east and could reach the foothills of the Zagros
mountains. Populations located in cities along the Euphrates were less
fortunate. And these were the cities that bore the brunt of the flood.
Apparently at least many of the other residents escaped, because there
does not seem to be a great break in the civilization.
There was a break in civilization at the flood. The Predynastic Period
in Mesopotamian history begins at 2900 BC at a recognized break in
Don't tell me that Ashurbanipal had trouble reading the pre-flood
documents. There was a 2 millennium gap. It's not that long back to King
Alfred's or the Venerable Bede's writings, and I guarantee you'll have a
devil of a time reading them.
I'll vouch for that. Heck, most people can't fathom the KJV and it was
written less than 400 years ago.
Dick Fischer
~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of D. F. Siemens, Jr.
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: The death of the RTB model
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:39:25 -0500 "Dick Fischer"
<> writes:
Hi Dave:
By all means please feel free to add this argument to your personal list
of higher criticisms. But whatever may appear to be counter intuitive
doesn't change some of the basics. There was a local flood born out by
the flood deposits found in the principle cities; Kish, Shurrupak, Uruk
(Erech), and Lagash, and the Sumerian King List, and the Mesopotamian
flood narratives including Genesis. Ashurbanipal (668-626 BC) who
compiled the library at Ninevah wrote: "I study stone inscriptions from
before the flood, which are obtuse, obscure and confused."
So there was a flood. Let's just agree on that. Otherwise, where did
the deposits come from? What the heck were all the Mesopotamian flood
accounts about? Why did the Sumerian King list mention a flood? What
flood was Ashurbanipal speaking about? What was Christ talking about
(Matt. 24:37-38, Luke 17:26-27)? What flood was the writer of Hebrews
referring to (Heb. 11:7)? What "ark" was Peter blathering about (1Pet.
3:20)? What "flood" (2Pet. 2:5)?
The scope was less than they taught us in Sunday school. All animal
life all across the globe didn't perish. All men didn't perish, only
those who were in the covenant line of descent. Oh, well. I can live
with that. What are you prepared to give up because you can't reconcile
all the details with what may appear to be logical to you? The bits and
pieces may be hard to fathom. We can only guess at the causes.
Dick Fischer
~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of David F Siemens
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: The death of the RTB model
Dick wrote, in response to Glenn:
Doesn't matter, you still have to expend a lot of energy pushing the
boats uphill against the current. 8 humans couldn't do that, and why
didn't they go east or west and get out of the flood in about a distance
of 5 miles? Noah sure was dumb to pole that boat several hundred miles
north when poling it only 2-3 miles east or west would have gotten him
out of the water sooner.
Boats are poled up the Tigris to this day. I don't know how far north
they go though. I'll try to find out.
This is irrelevant unless you ask how 8 people poled a vessel 150x50
cubits up the river. How large are the boats plying up river from
Baghdad? at the Turkish border? Also, you have to consider its draft.
I'm guessing that it would be 10 cubits when fully loaded. Of course, I
am not citing the Revised by Guess Version.
Received on Sun Feb 26 13:01:29 2006

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