RE: The death of the RTB model

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Wed Feb 22 2006 - 14:44:52 EST

Hi Glenn, I wrote:
>So forget about Adam for a moment. Let's move down ten generations and
start with Noah. The flood is a dateable event at 2900 BC >within the
confines of southern Mesopotamia. I've shown this before, but now I
would like people to just think about it before hitting the reply
Glenn wrote:
No, Dick there is not a shred of geologic evidence for a flood bigger
than a normal riverine flood which happens every century or so. There is
no datable geologic event from that time period---period! Believing it
won't make it so.
That's all it was - a big flood covering about 300 miles. Big enough to
wipe out the Accadians, not big enough to terminate the Sumerians, no
impact on the Egyptians. No need to look for some geological event.
All the central cities along the Euphrates River showed riverine flood
deposits dated to roughly 2900 BC. Ninevah to the north had a flood
dated much earlier, but Ninevah had no Adamite generations until Asshur
discovered it after the flood.
And, you never have answered the issue of having enough energy to push
the arck from southern Mesopotamia, uphill several thousand feet and
landing somewhere along the Turkish border, all against a strong stream
which is pushing the boat towards the Persian Gulf.
Who thinks the Turkish border is in play? The hills of Armenia
("mountains of Ararat") had no border.
I posted something on that years ago, and you haven't really ever
explained it. You said something about the people polling the ark north,
but that is really tough given the uphill climb and the friction of the
The eleventh tablet of Gilgamesh mentions putting punting holes in the
boat when Utnapishtim built it. And punting up and down the canal
network and rivers is still carried out in Iraq to this day.
>I think this anchors the flood episode sufficiently and places Noah in
southern Mesopotamia around 5,000 years ago. Ziusudra and Atrahasis
certainly didn't live millions of years ago. And I haven't heard anyone
argue that we all descend from them. Since those >who think we all come
from Adam also think we all come from Noah, let them find a way to work
out of this one.
Actually without physical evidence of the flood (and wimpy river floods
are not notable enough to count), you haven't actually anchored
You don't want to concede even one point that should be patently obvious
to anyone who just reads the accounts side by side which I assume you
did. Did you see any lack of relationship in the side-by-side
narratives? The preponderance of similarities points to a common
origin. Agree? All the flood narratives in accounts written earlier
than Genesis are about a Mesopotamian episode. Agree? Then Genesis too
is a Mesopotamian episode. Agree? This is just an ordinary logic tree.
Nothing tricky about it.
But that isn't all the evidence. The Sumerian king list after the flood
restores kingship in Kish. Where is Kish? After twenty-three kings
rule in Kish, "Kish is smitten with weapons" and kingship transfers to
"E-Anna(k)." That's "Enoch" according to some translations - the city
Cain built. There's more, but that's why I wrote a book.
Plus, the next event in Genesis is the tower event. Where is Babylon?
Ziggurats were built from no earlier than 3000 BC starting as simple mud
brick platforms and grew to massive structures that the Egyptians
emulated when they built the pyramids. Ziggurat building stopped when
Sumer was destroyed in 2000 BC. This 1,000 year period of history fits
neatly into Genesis 11.
Now if we allow that the flood in all likelihood is a 2900 BC
Mesopotamian event, then we can move back ten generations and place Adam
in the same area. Where was the Garden of Eden? Well, where is the
Euphrates? Where was Assyria? If you're tired of listening to me, read
Carol Ann Hill's article "The Garden of Eden: A Modern Landscape" on the
ASA web page:
All of Genesis 1-11 fits nicely into this historical timeframe. The
only reason to deny it is because we would prefer to think that all
humanity is included here. It isn't.
BTW, when I was taking survival training in the Air Force we ate
insects. (No scorpions where we were the California mountains.) Our
instructor reminded us that insects were pure protein. Personally I
like my protein to taste more like charcoal broiled steak.
Dick Fischer
~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
Received on Wed Feb 22 14:44:39 2006

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