RE: The death of the RTB model

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Tue Feb 21 2006 - 18:51:01 EST

HI Glenn, you wrote:
BTW, it took 3 encyclicals for the Popes to finally convince people that
Native Americans were really descended from Adam.
The irony here is that in all likelihood none of the popes were
descended from Adam either. So how do I alone extricate the entire
Christian world from the misconception that Jewish history recorded by
the Jews explicitly for them in their Pentateuch was somehow mistaken by
us as human history? It's like reading all about your father's family
history thinking it was your family history too, and then finding out
years later you were adopted. Bummer.
So forget about Adam for a moment. Let's move down ten generations and
start with Noah. The flood is a dateable event at 2900 BC within the
confines of southern Mesopotamia. I've shown this before, but now I
would like people to just think about it before hitting the reply
Parallel Flood Accounts
The following flood texts, listed in order of writing, are from Ziusudra
(in Sumerian), Atrahasis (in Accadian), the eleventh tablet of Gilgamesh
(in four Semitic languages), and Genesis 6-9. The commonalities suggest
a common origin for all. The Sumerian King Lists name seven to ten
pre-flood kings (the number of kings varies according to which cities
they were found in), some ending in Ziusudra. Then the King Lists
state: "Then the flood swept thereover."

"when their heart led the great gods to produce the flood." - Gilgamesh
"every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil." -
Genesis 6:5

"The great gods decided to make a flood" - Gilgamesh XI,14
"God ... decided to make an end of all flesh" - Genesis 6:13

"Enki...over the capitals the storm will sweep" - Ziusudra iv, 156
"He [Enki] told him of the coming of the flood" - Atrahasis III,i,37
"God said to Noah ...I will bring a flood" - Genesis 6:13,17

"who protected the seed of mankind" - Ziusudra vi,259
"to keep their seed alive" - Genesis 7:3

"Ten dozen cubits the height of each of her walls" - Gilgamesh XI
"... three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits" - Genesis

"Like the apsu you shall roof it" - Atrahasis 111j,29
"Like the apsu you shall roof it" - Gilgamesh XI,31
"Make a roof for the ark" - Genesis 6:16
"pitch I poured into the inside" - Gilgamesh XI,66
"cover it inside and out with pitch" - Genesis 6:14

"coming of the flood on the seventh night" - Atrahasis,lll,i,37
"For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain ." - Genesis 7:4

"animals which emerge from the earth" - Ziusudra vi,253
"clean animals and of animals that are not clean" - Genesis 7:8

"Enter the boat and close the boat's door" - Atrahasis DT,42(w),6
"I entered the boat and closed the door' - Gilgamesh XI,93
"And they that entered ... and the Lord shut him in" - Genesis 7:16
"the storm had swept ... for seven days and seven nights" - Ziusudra
"For seven days and seven nights came the storm" - Atrahasis III,iv,24
"after seven days the waters of the flood came" - Genesis 7:10

"Below the fountain of the deep was stopped" - Atrahasis
"The fountains also of the deep . were stopped" - Genesis 8:2

"I opened the window" - Gilgamesh XI,135
"Noah opened the window of the ark" - Genesis 8:6

"The dove went out and returned" - Gilgamesh XI,147
"sent forth the dove and the dove came back to him" - Genesis 8:10

"Then I sent forth and set free a raven" - Gilgamesh XI
"And he sent forth a raven" - Genesis 8:7

"He offered [a sacrifice]" - Atrahasis III,v,31
"And offered a sacrifice" - Gilgamesh XI,155
"offered burnt offerings on the altar" - Genesis 8:20

"The gods smelled the savor' - Atrahasis III,v,34
"The gods smelled the sweet savor" - Gilgamesh XI,160
"And the Lord smelled the sweet savor..." - Genesis 8:21

"That I may remember it [every] day" - Atrahasis III,vi,4
"I shall remember these days and never forget" - Gilgamesh XI,165
"I shall remember my covenant ...I may remember" - Genesis 9:15-16

"he touched our foreheads to bless us" - Gilgamesh XI,192
"And God blessed Noah" - Genesis 9:1
I think this anchors the flood episode sufficiently and places Noah in
southern Mesopotamia around 5,000 years ago. Ziusudra and Atrahasis
certainly didn't live millions of years ago. And I haven't heard anyone
argue that we all descend from them. Since those who think we all come
from Adam also think we all come from Noah, let them find a way to work
out of this one.
Do you believe that Adam was taken from pre-human
animal-creature-humans? I don't recall that.
Adam either was specially created for God's purpose or had normal human
parents and was chosen out. The Ubaidans occupied Southern Mesopotamia
prior to the Accadians and Sumerians. He may have come from them if he
had normal childbirth.
With a genetic disposition toward long-life, however he got it, Eve was
taken from him perhaps for the same reason. Genesis doesn't tell us why
Cain's offering was unacceptable and Abel's was acceptable. It may be
because Abel's offering was a blood offering. But that's only our
And do you believe that Adam was the first missionary? Where is that in
the Bible and why all the mumbojumbo about ribs, snakes etc in the
Genesis account if what God really meant to say was, Adam you are to
tell others about me?
Why does Genesis bother to tell us that Tubalcain's sister was Naamah
(Gen. 4:22)? Who cares? Who ever cared? I can't speak to what was
included or what was left out. All I can tell you is that if I had
written it you wouldn't have to ask questions like that.
I can give you a rationale for Satan's appearance as a snake, but it's
just like Cain and Abel's offerings. Who really knows?
Spirit beings sometimes do appear in human and animal form. For
example, the Holy Spirit "descended in a bodily shape like a dove" at
the baptism of Christ (Luke 3:22). In Genesis 2:26, the covenant pair
was given dominion over the animals and "every creeping thing,"
including serpents. Eve had the power and authority to rebuke the
serpent, but instead, she surrendered her God-given authority and
submitted herself to Satan's influence through the guile of the
serpent's words.
Had Satan appeared as an "angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14), presenting
himself in splendor, a certain intimidation factor would have been
introduced. His words would have seemed more credible. Eve might have
been excused for believing those cunning words if Satan had appeared as
a god-like being. Coming from a serpent, Eve was truly without excuse.
It was simply the power of a clever argument that was her undoing.
In Luke 4:6, Satan tempted Jesus three times. Satan boasted that the
power and the glory "is delivered" unto him, and that he could give it
to "whomsoever" he pleased. No place in Scripture can we find where God
gave him this office of power, yet he had it, and it was delegated to
him. It was precisely this authority given to the covenant pair that
solely through devious persuasion was delivered up on a silver platter
to a lowly serpent, and it was only man's to give.
Dick Fischer
~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History <>
Received on Tue Feb 21 18:51:11 2006

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