Re: The death of the RTB model

From: <>
Date: Thu Feb 16 2006 - 12:39:13 EST

In a message dated 2/16/2006 11:03:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Face the worst case scenario, Dick. What if Jesus was only a man and knew he
would not be saved, but sacrificed himself anyway so that we would have an
archetype, a role model, a man who knew the law and had it written on his heart
and would die rather than betray his principles... Would he be any less than
the Son of God? Not to me. Even in the worst case scenario.
rich faussette

## So Rich ---- since you claim to have "secret knowledge" --- if your
Jesus was only an imperfect, sinful man --- please explain how he could possibly
be "the Christ".
Please don't read any of your concerns into my posts. Nothing I've posted is
secret except to the kabbalists. If you read my paper you would understand why
they describe a secret of nature in genesis. Since I reveal the information,
it's not a secret anymore, is it?

I never said Jesus was not the Son of God. In fact, above I say if he was
proven only to have been a man tomorrow, I would continue to regard him as the
Son of God. I never said if he was only a man, that he would necessarily be an
imperfect, sinful man. You did.
When I examine the scriptures from a purely rational point of view, I am
seeing how the laws of God as personified in Jesus Christ can impact our lives in
the here and now.
Since Jesus said, the kingdom of god is on earth and men do not see it, I
think I am on the right track.
There are rational reasons for a lot of the miracles we find in the
scriptures. For example, the king of the Jews goes hand in hand with the virgin birth.
If Jesus was virginally birthed, then he is literally the son of God, the
highest ranking male in Judaism since rank comes through the father while
Jewishness is inherited from the mother. Now, we know that in the talmud, in the
geneaology of Jesus (toledoth yeshu) Jesus is born of a prostitute. That means he
has no lineage, no rank in Judaism and Mary's womb is a common rather than a
unique receptacle. The toledoth yeshu employs a literary device I call the
reversal of absolutes which Jewish writers employ to make a point. Is the toledoth
yeshu the correct absolute or is the virgin mary and king of the Jews the
correct absolute. Which one was reversed and which one is true if either? I don't

I do know that if you attempt a rational understanding of the scriptures
assuming the whole house of cards is going to fall down when you find one allegory
or one miracle not what you were taught it was, you prevent yourself from a
rational understanding of your own religion.
I was trying to make that point to Dick.

Quite literally when you make the self sacrifice, you transcend the body and
you are no longer just a man. You have risen above your corporeal self.

A snip from Natural Selection and the Nature of God:

In John White’s essay, Jesus, Evolution, and the Future of Humanity, he
writes, “The very first words Jesus spoke to humanity in his public ministry were, ‘
The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe
in the gospel’ (Mark1: 14, Matthew 4:17).”
White writes, “Notice that word: repent. Over the centuries it has become
misused and mistranslated. The Aramaic word that Jesus used is tob, meaning, ‘to
return,’ ‘to flow back into God.’ The sense of this concept comes through
best in the Greek word first used to translate it. That word is metanoia and like
tob, it means something far greater than merely feeling sorry for
misbehavior. Meta means, ‘to go beyond,’ ‘to go higher than.’ And noia comes from nous,
meaning, ‘mind.’ So the original meaning of metanoia is literally ‘going
beyond or higher than the ordinary mental state.’ In modern terms, it means
transcending self-centered ego and becoming God-centered.”
Now Job’s final words assume a greater significance. When Job despises his
self and his self melts away, he transcends his self-centered ego (repents) and
sees God.

rich faussette
Received on Thu Feb 16 12:39:45 2006

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