RE: The death of the RTB model

From: Tjalle T Vandergraaf <>
Date: Thu Feb 16 2006 - 12:36:39 EST

See also Romans 5:6: ". at just the right time, when we were still
powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a
righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still
sinners, Christ died for us." [NIV]


There must have been lots of people who have sacrificed themselves for
others rather than betray his disciples or others. If one wants to argue
that Jesus was the first one and, therefore, was the archetype, what about
other people in the OT, such as Samson? He 'sacrificed' himself, admittedly
in a somewhat ham-fisted way and, in the process, wiped out a good number of
Philistines. But, maybe, he was the archetype of a suicide bomber?


Chuck Vandergraaf






From: [] On
Behalf Of Janice Matchett
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: The death of the RTB model


At 09:35 PM 2/15/2006, wrote:

[Dick] wrote:
By implication, this calls into question the legitimacy of the death and
resurrection of Christ himself.
By your implication, Dick. I use my mind to apprehend what I can understand.
I use my faith when my mind fails. Faith was good enough for Jesus. It is
good enough for me.
Face the worst case scenario, Dick. What if Jesus was only a man and knew he
would not be saved, but sacrificed himself anyway so that we would have an
archetype, a role model, a man who knew the law and had it written on his
heart and would die rather than betray his principles... Would he be any
less than the Son of God? Not to me. Even in the worst case scenario.
rich faussette

## So Rich ---- since you claim to have "secret knowledge" --- if your
Jesus was only an imperfect, sinful man --- please explain how he could
possibly be "the Christ".

se=13&version=kjv> 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea
Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of
man am?

se=14&version=kjv> 16:14 And they said, Some [say that thou art just a
man]: John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the

se=15&version=kjv> 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

se=16&version=kjv> 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the
Christ, the Son of the living God.

se=17&version=kjv> 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art
thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee,
but my Father which is in heaven.

~ Janice
Received on Thu Feb 16 12:38:12 2006

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