RE: A Christmas Message

From: Tjalle T Vandergraaf <>
Date: Tue Dec 27 2005 - 17:07:48 EST

I raised the bleak situation of the FOUR hostages and their families. Two
of these are Canadian. One of the Canadians is a Roman Catholic. His
congregation and his community are praying for him, his co-workers and their
families. If we'd use Dick Fischer's logic, we should include a statement
in our prayers blaming the persons for the pickle they got themselves into.
"Lord, I'm praying that you will heal our brother/sister who is suffering
from .., even though he/she brought it on himself by ......." [fill in the
blanks]. Somehow, "that just doesn't sound right to me." Maybe it does to
Dick Fischer.


This will be my last post on this topic as it has little to do with the
thrust of the ASA forum (but it did reveal some interesting traits of the


Shalom ("peace is not just the absence of war")


Chuck Vandergraaf








From: [] On
Behalf Of Dick Fischer
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: A Christmas Message


Hi George:


I'd pray for everybody, including him. But if he had paid attention to the
Scriptures he should have been reading he might still be in Virginia as I


Plus, I'm a patriot. I flew 164 combat missions in Viet Nam. I wouldn't
traipse around Iraq looking for ways to embarrass my own country. Read

"The most recently released video of the men shows Kember and Fox
blindfolded with their hands chained together. In it, Fox blames the
American and British presence in Iraq for his plight.

'The only way that we can all be free is for the American and British
soldiers to leave Iraq as soon as possible,' he said."

Nathan Hale he ain't.

~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History


-----Original Message-----
From: George Murphy []
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:16 PM
To: Dick Fischer; ASA
Subject: Re: A Christmas Message


So let's not pray for him because he's got some bad theology. I thought we
were supposed to pray for our enemies, but I guess we shouldn't for
Christians who are in error.



----- Original Message -----

From: Dick <> Fischer

To: ASA <>

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM

Subject: RE: A Christmas Message


Tjalle T Vandergraaf wrote:

...And a "bleak midwinter" it is for the four members of the Christian
Peacemaker Team that are being held hostage in Iraq and for their families.
..." ~ Chuck Vandergraaf


I guess they found evidence of civil rights abuses, huh. One of the
hostages is Tom Fox who lives in Virginia and thus has gotten special
attention in the Washington Post and local TV coverage. Another irony is
that Fox, a Christian, believed there was good in all men. I wonder where
he got that notion? Jer. 17:9 says, "The heart is deceitful above all
things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"


Had he heeded the words of the prophet, and pondered Proverbs 3:5: "Trust in
the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding,"
he might have enjoyed Christmas in Virginia.


~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History


### Yeah. The poor souls.

They've been under discussion here for several weeks, now. Here is a small
sample of it:

Who Are <> the
Christian Peacemaker Teams? ^ | 11/30/2005 | DiscoverTheNetworks
Posted on 11/30/2005 12:10:57 PM EST by
<> Para-Ord.45


Brothers: <> Hostages
were gathering evidence of abuse (by the US) in Iraq
005/WORLD/meast/12/09/iraq.main/> ^ | Dec 9 2005 Posted on 12/09/2005
11:09:18 PM EST by
<> jmc1969


"..their brother was in Iraq to gather information on alleged human rights

Looks like they found some.

15 <>
posted on 12/09/2005 11:16:54 PM EST by Fido969

Two <> taken hostage
in Iraq worked for Christian Peacemaker Teams Canada
Gazette ^ | 11/29/05 | Colin Perkel Posted on 11/29/2005 10:10:28 AM EST by
<> Valin

I guess the terrorists didn't get the memo about CPT being on their side.

2 <> posted
on 11/29/2005 10:12:35 AM EST by mewzilla
<> (Property
must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)

Iraq <> Hostages'
Group Blames Bush, Blair
Posted on 11/30/2005 10:11:15 AM EST by
<> LSUfan


Still No <> Word on
Fate of Iraq Hostages
ap/20051211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_hostages> on Yahoo News ^ | December 11,
2005 | Patrick Quinn, AP
Posted on 12/11/2005 4:06:08 PM EST by

Annan <> demands
immediate release of hostages held in Iraq
m/english/2005-12/09/content_3898388.htm> ^ | Dec 8 2005 Posted on
12/08/2005 9:56:07 PM EST by
<> jmc1969


Misplaced <>
Moonbat Anger (Christian Peacemaker Teams blames the US for kidnappings)
<> ^ | 11/30/05
Posted on 11/30/2005 10:27:47 AM EST by
<> finnman69

etc., etc.

~ Janice

Received on Tue Dec 27 17:09:39 2005

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