Re: Re: petition to amend ASA Constitutional Objectives?

From: Joe Carson <>
Date: Wed Nov 30 2005 - 20:20:21 EST

we're talking past each other. There is a quite a range of
possibility between totally inscrutable and completely
scrutable. You are saying any collective and intentional effort, by
Christian engineers, theologians, and others to ascertain God's
will for the engineering profession and its Christian members is
futile, because God is too inscrutable. I'm saying such an effort
could result in an inability to determine anything, it could be that
God's will is, in fact, inscrutable in this way. But I think it
presumptuous to say so, to claim that His will is completely
inscrutable, beyond any human effort to ascertain in any
degree. What in the Bible, tradition, and history supports such a
theology of God?

Your statement is incoherent in light of everyday practice, I also
suggest it is contrary to the ASA statement of faith, which includes words:

We believe that in creating and preserving the universe, God has
endowed it with contigent order and intelligibility, the basis of
scientific investigation.
We recognize our responsibility, as stewards of God's creation, to
use science and technology for the good of humanity and the whole world.

Engineering is a profession, professions have certain functions,
including creating and enforcing a standard of care. Professions
have jurisdiction over the workplace competency and ethics of their
members. Professions, via their professional societies hold
significant public trusts. Is God indifferent to all that?

So let's keep talking past one another, Dave, because we are just so


At 06:51 PM 11/30/2005, D. F. Siemens, Jr. wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:06:15 +0000 <> writes:
> > I appreciate the response, but disagree that God is so unscrupable,
> > random, and capricious that any effort to collectively and
> > intentionally ascertain His will is presumptuous. It seems, to me,
> > rather presumptuous to make such a claim, in fact.
> >
> > I certainly agree that an effort may give no clear result, that is
> > quite possible, but it is not fordained.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > PS why bother trying to reason anything about God out of any rock or
> > other empirical fact, if God is so unpredictable and inscruptable?
> > >
>I am so glad that you have the sovereign remedy for all the
>denominations, bringing them into total agreement. You've obviously done
>it with a "scruptable" God.
Received on Wed Nov 30 20:45:21 2005

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