Re: Re: petition to amend ASA Constitutional Objectives?

From: Joe Carson <>
Date: Wed Nov 30 2005 - 20:41:37 EST

Hello? Paul, are we on the same planet?

The Pope and Catholic bishops have no authority to tell their
congregants what they must do to be Catholics?

ASA has no right to require its members agree to a statement of faith?

ASA has no right to have objectives in its Constitution?

No profession has no right to adopt and enforce a code of ethics?

No religious leader has no right to dictate to anyone in their faith
community what God wants them to do?

Let's go forward with the change in the ASA objectives, because maybe
the results of the effort will be exactly what you say, then there
will not be as much question about it.

Engineering is secular as it ought to be, but does that mean God is
indifferent to it and indifferent to whatever Christians do within it?

We are called to advance God's glory, in our stewardship of planet
earth - with our minds, our bodies, and our mouths - that is much
more relevant to our vocational identities, than "witnessing to the
lost." Salvation is meaningless absent Creation - what did Christ
come to save? So we have been restored to our original mission -
advance God's glory by advancing His creation on earth, by
employing our "image of God" powers of conscious thought,
imagination, communication, abstraction, etc, while enjoying
fellowship with Him. As we go about this, we are also to witness,
not vice versa.

That takes, I suggest, intentional and collective action by
Christians in their spheres of influence (i.e. salt and light) - both
individual and collective. But that can take putting oneself at risk
in a most vulnerable way in a market economy - his/her career. That
is something , that ASA members do not want to do, so we make
rationalization after rationalization about it, we talk past one
another, or claim God is too inscrutable to even collectively pose
and respond to the question "what is God's will for the
science/engineering profession and its Christian members."

ASA is, now as ever, sterile by definition. No one can point to
anything different in the engineering and science professions because
ASA exists. Not one thing, because ASA has never intentionally done
anything to be a salt and light influence in them. Not once in 60
years, not in a world awash with weapons of mass destruction, a world
in which religious persecution is widespread, a world in which 2
billion people live on $2/day or less, etc. Nothing - what a witness.

ASA will not even state that Christian faith is a valid reason for a
Christian scientist or engineer to intentionally and collectively
work with others in their profession to uplift and advance their
profession and its service to humanity and the created order.

ASA will turn itself into a pretzel to evade any rigorous effort to
ascertain and advance God's will for it and its members, because it
knows it may well get an answer it doesn't want to hear.


At 06:25 PM 11/30/2005, Paul Greaves wrote:
>I think you may be missing the point... I think the issue is that no one has
>the right to dictate to someone else what God wants them to do. The best we
>can do is to try to ascertain what God's will is for ourselves, and discuss
>it amongst fellow believers. Your suggested wording implies a more
>subversive approach to engineering, trying to impose a "Christian" set of
>goals onto the science and engineering professions.
>I think that is the wrong approach... I think we are called to be witnesses
>for Christ, reaching out to others in hopes of sharing our faith with them.
>(Isn't here a Bible verse or two along those lines?) It is only through
>reaching their hearts that we have any real hope in changing their actions.
>I see the ASA as a venue for us Christians to discuss amongst ourselves what
>God's will is for our lives and our professions, not as a vehicle for
>political change. (So I like the old wording better...)
>-Paul Greaves
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <>
> > I appreciate the response, but disagree that God is so unscrupable,
>random, and capricious that any effort to collectively and intentionally
>ascertain His will is presumptuous...
Received on Wed Nov 30 20:45:21 2005

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