RE: Kuwait's biggest field starts to run out of oil

From: Tjalle T Vandergraaf <>
Date: Tue Nov 15 2005 - 16:08:09 EST

A few comments on comments made by Janice on my comments on what Glenn


I agree that oil is only one form or energy and that there are many other
forms. Problem is, we have become accustomed to a reasonably priced
portable energy source and have based our society on this energy source
(witness the sprawling suburbs and the big-box stores at the periphery of
the suburbs, both which require cheap gasoline). With prices of gasoline
bound to increase, it's going to cost us more to drive and heat our homes
and churches. Yes, we'll find a medium somewhere, but I don't think we will
call it a happy medium. I agree that we should not panic and that's why I
wrote that we need to think ahead. Once prices have skyrocketed, it will be
even more expensive to retrofit our homes and churches.


Of course, we will never run out of oil! That's not the point. The point
is that we will run out of the low-cost oil and other sources of energy that
have provided our current lifestyle (and that includes waging war, for which
there is always enough money and energy and for which we don't have to write
an EIS (environmental impact statement)).


Biodiesel and ethanol are viable alternatives as long as the energy balance
is positive but I wonder how many acres we need to plant with corn etc. to
offset the decrease in fossil fuel harvesting. Hopefully, somebody has an
answer. But, what with the vagaries of farming (Canadian prairie farmers
have had a rough couple of years), I wonder how secure a biofuel supply
would be.


To me, an obvious answer is to go nuclear so that we can reserve fossil
fuels for transportation. As Glenn showed, strapping a nuclear reactor to a
Boeing 747 is not the way to go and, I suggest, neither is burning oil to
keep our homes warm.


But, my main point is that, regardless of how quick the price of oil goes
up, we should plan ahead and that includes having a good hard look at church


Chuck Vandergraaf (3rd message today, only one more before my allotment is
up for the say)







From: janice matchett []
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:33 PM
Cc: Tjalle T Vandergraaf; 'Glenn Morton'
Subject: RE: Kuwait's biggest field starts to run out of oil


At 12:49 PM 11/15/2005, Tjalle T Vandergraaf wrote:

Thanks to Glenn for this, although not unexpected, news item. ... Will we
revert back to the days when people would bring a small wooden footstool to
church with glowing coals ...? .... Time is not on our side. ~ Chuck


From: Glenn Morton - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 5:23 AM
I fear that .... Given the news I was sent today, I fear that ...If this is
the time of peak oil, heaven help us all. ...
It was an incredible revelation last week that the second largest oil field
in the world is exhausted ... The news about the Burgan oil field also lends
credence to the controversial opinions of investment banker and geologist
Matthew Simmons. ....." <> ~ glenn

### Some may find these comments below to be of interest [my comment is
last on the list]:

The demand for oil is skyrocketing world wide.

This is incorrect. The demand for Energy is skyrocketing world wide. It just
happens that currently crude oil is the cheapest, most efficient form
available. 48

we shouldn't be panicking because of fear-mongering related to "peak oil"
theories....We'll find a happy medium somewhere, between oil and alternative
energy production that will allow things to continue longer than many people


Oil = Energy. But Energy does not equal Oil. 56

Old wells/fields ARE regenerating. You are correct that they are nowhere
near their original level of production. And you will note that I did not
say "rapidly refilling".

We will never run out of oil. We WILL reach a point where demand exceeds the
ability to produce.

As to geologist believing in fossil fuels, Of course they do, that is what
they were taught in school. Theory changes, the state of the art changes, NO
reputable geologist believes in Dyson Unifromitarianism any more but is was
taught in schools at one time. No sane person believes in socialism any
more, but governments still practice it. There is no scientific evidence to
support the theory of man made global warming, but it is still given wide
credence. The list goes on.

The problem with most of these arguments about energy production is that
they are usually Zero Sum arguments.
In the 60's we were going to run out of food in 50 years ( the Population
Bomb), in the 70's it was the coming ice age (I still have the Nasty
Geographics to prove it), in the 80's it was the Ozone Hole, in the 90's it
was Global Warming, and now its Oil. Pick your crisis, it will be a non
issue in a few years. 67

....the problems have ALREADY been solved. Let me state it one more time -
Bio-diesel and other methods have already proven to be a FUNCTIONAL

Forget windmills and solar cells. We can already run the engines we have on
other fuels, with some existing technology. NO - it's not cheap right now.
But - when gas gets more expensive, it WILL BE MORE ECONOMICAL. You WILL NOT
have to ride a bike.

The law of supply and demand (human nature) dictates that when people are
willing to get an industry such as that started, they are willing to pay for
it, and the prices eventually come down, as more companies want in on the

THAT is how I draw the conclusion. If we had as many bio-fuel staions as gas
stations, the competition would keep BOTH prices low. We just have to be
forced to choose something besides gas, and that will trigger what I'm
telling you.

It's not just oil supply. It's that PLUS economics, PLUS human nature. 74

"..Big Oil continues to jack-up prices at the pump. ..." ~ Willie Green

And just "who" is "big oil"? LOL

"....over 60% of oil is owned by governments and governments are trying to
increase the amount of oil they own and control. For example, government
owned companies from India and China are trying to buy oil rights from
Canada, Brazil and South East Asia.

Major privately owned oil companies such as ExxonMobile and Shell control
less and less of the worlds oil. ..."

75 <> posted
on 11/15/2005 12:13:12 PM EST by Matchett-PI

~ Janice
Received on Tue Nov 15 16:10:54 2005

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