Re: Is there evidence of design?

From: Terry M. Gray <grayt@lamar.colostate.edu>
Date: Mon Nov 14 2005 - 12:03:45 EST

Cornelius,

Evidence detectable scientifically?

Not sure what your last sentence means. If by that you mean that
evolution is a God-designed, -guided process, and that irreducible
complexity can arise by such means, then I readily concur. If you
mean, the process and results evidence some kind of superimposed
purposefulness detectable from the outside, then I have my doubts.

TG

On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:17 AM, Cornelius Hunter wrote:

> Brief response for now: My question is simply do you find evidence
> of design in creation, in whatever form that evidence may take (IC
> is fine as an example).
>
> "I reject the claim that "irreducible complexity" is unevolvable "
>
> It is not a matter of design *or* evolution.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Terry M. Gray
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 3:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Is there evidence of design?
>
> Cornelius,
>
> Two responses here:
>
> First, you're changing the question. The context was Miller and
> Levine's discussion of "purposeful evolution", i.e. that something
> scientifically detectable is guiding the process.
>
> Second, I'm not sure what your question means. What does it mean
> that the ETS/ETC exhibits evidence for design? Does it have some
> function in the cell? Yes--even Dawkins will recognize design in
> that sense. Is that what you're talking about? Or are you talking
> about "irreducible complexity"? I.e. do all the parts depend on
> each other provide a working whole. Yes--ETS/ETC is complex in that
> sense and biologists have always talked about it (even if we
> haven't called it "irreducible complexity") in terms of structure/
> function relationships. I reject the claim that "irreducible
> complexity" is unevolvable by naturally occurring mechanisms simply
> on the basis of in principle exaptation arguments alone. Is that
> what you're talking about? If not those two things, then what is it
> that you mean?
>
> I'm very inclined to think of design, when it comes to the
> relationship between God and the creation (a different relationship
> than that between an artifact and an artificer), as being a
> theological concept rather than a scientific one. While this may
> come very close to defining the problem away, and perhaps it does,
> since I don't really see that there is much of a problem, it is a
> perspective that needs articulating from the outset. I believe in
> design because I believe in a designer, not because I see design in
> and of itself.
>
> TG
>
> On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:20 AM, Cornelius Hunter wrote:
>
>>
>> Well how about starting with this question. Do you think there is
>> evidence for design in creation? For instance, does the electron
>> transport chain exhibit evidence for design?
>>
>> From: Terry M. Gray
>> If there is a "plan and purpose" that is detectable
>> scientifically, then I'm all ears. Where is it? How is it imposed
>> on organisms and ecosystems?
>> TG
>>
>
> ________________
> Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
> Computer Support Scientist
> Chemistry Department
> Colorado State University
> Fort Collins, CO 80523
> (o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
>
>
>

________________
Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
Computer Support Scientist
Chemistry Department
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
(o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
Received on Mon Nov 14 12:04:56 2005

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