Re: Is there evidence of design?

From: Cornelius Hunter <>
Date: Mon Nov 14 2005 - 09:17:57 EST

Brief response for now: My question is simply do you find evidence of design in creation, in whatever form that evidence may take (IC is fine as an example).

"I reject the claim that "irreducible complexity" is unevolvable "

It is not a matter of design *or* evolution.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Terry M. Gray
  Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 3:50 PM
  Subject: Re: Is there evidence of design?


  Two responses here:

  First, you're changing the question. The context was Miller and Levine's discussion of "purposeful evolution", i.e. that something scientifically detectable is guiding the process.

  Second, I'm not sure what your question means. What does it mean that the ETS/ETC exhibits evidence for design? Does it have some function in the cell? Yes--even Dawkins will recognize design in that sense. Is that what you're talking about? Or are you talking about "irreducible complexity"? I.e. do all the parts depend on each other provide a working whole. Yes--ETS/ETC is complex in that sense and biologists have always talked about it (even if we haven't called it "irreducible complexity") in terms of structure/function relationships. I reject the claim that "irreducible complexity" is unevolvable by naturally occurring mechanisms simply on the basis of in principle exaptation arguments alone. Is that what you're talking about? If not those two things, then what is it that you mean?

  I'm very inclined to think of design, when it comes to the relationship between God and the creation (a different relationship than that between an artifact and an artificer), as being a theological concept rather than a scientific one. While this may come very close to defining the problem away, and perhaps it does, since I don't really see that there is much of a problem, it is a perspective that needs articulating from the outset. I believe in design because I believe in a designer, not because I see design in and of itself.


  On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:20 AM, Cornelius Hunter wrote:

    Well how about starting with this question. Do you think there is evidence for design in creation? For instance, does the electron transport chain exhibit evidence for design?

      From: Terry M. Gray
      If there is a "plan and purpose" that is detectable scientifically, then I'm all ears. Where is it? How is it imposed on organisms and ecosystems?

  Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
  Computer Support Scientist
  Chemistry Department
  Colorado State University
  Fort Collins, CO 80523
  (o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
Received on Mon Nov 14 09:20:21 2005

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