Re: Is there evidence of design?

From: Terry M. Gray <>
Date: Sun Nov 13 2005 - 18:50:22 EST


Two responses here:

First, you're changing the question. The context was Miller and
Levine's discussion of "purposeful evolution", i.e. that something
scientifically detectable is guiding the process.

Second, I'm not sure what your question means. What does it mean that
the ETS/ETC exhibits evidence for design? Does it have some function
in the cell? Yes--even Dawkins will recognize design in that sense.
Is that what you're talking about? Or are you talking about
"irreducible complexity"? I.e. do all the parts depend on each other
provide a working whole. Yes--ETS/ETC is complex in that sense and
biologists have always talked about it (even if we haven't called it
"irreducible complexity") in terms of structure/function
relationships. I reject the claim that "irreducible complexity" is
unevolvable by naturally occurring mechanisms simply on the basis of
in principle exaptation arguments alone. Is that what you're talking
about? If not those two things, then what is it that you mean?

I'm very inclined to think of design, when it comes to the
relationship between God and the creation (a different relationship
than that between an artifact and an artificer), as being a
theological concept rather than a scientific one. While this may come
very close to defining the problem away, and perhaps it does, since I
don't really see that there is much of a problem, it is a perspective
that needs articulating from the outset. I believe in design because
I believe in a designer, not because I see design in and of itself.


On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:20 AM, Cornelius Hunter wrote:

> Well how about starting with this question. Do you think there is
> evidence for design in creation? For instance, does the electron
> transport chain exhibit evidence for design?
> From: Terry M. Gray
> If there is a "plan and purpose" that is detectable scientifically,
> then I'm all ears. Where is it? How is it imposed on organisms and
> ecosystems?
> TG

Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
Computer Support Scientist
Chemistry Department
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
(o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
Received on Sun Nov 13 18:53:54 2005

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