Re: Why sometimes I am ashamed to be called a Christian

From: janice matchett <>
Date: Sat Nov 12 2005 - 16:40:26 EST

At 04:20 PM 11/12/2005, D. F. Siemens, Jr. wrote:
>What's with this nonsense of being nonjudgmental? Do I not read that we'll
>know persons "by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16--note succeeding verses and
>other passages). How can anyone check fruit without judging quality? The
>much cited "Judge not" (7:1) does not stand alone, but specifies that our
>judgment of others will be applied to us. What is not to be tolerated is
>what was noted in the facetious declension of English adjectives,
>illustrated by: I'm tenacious, you're stubborn, he's pigheaded. The
>Chinese proverb of the baskets on the carrying pole also fits, for it is
>more difficult for us to see our own faults. Nevertheless, "God's gonna
>get you for that" is foolish and brings reproach on the gospel. To fail to
>say this is not being nonjudgmental, it's sitting on the truth and holding
>it down.

#### In effect sayng, "I thank you God that I am not like so and so", is
not engaging in "righteous judgement".

I agree with you otherwise, as I so stated here:

Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:42:18 -0500 To: Pim van Meurs <>,
From: janice matchett <>

Robertson is just as big an embarrassment to orthodox Christianity as thse
guys are to sound science:

~ Janice

At 12:20 PM 11/11/2005, Pim van Meurs wrote:
Wow... "Pat Robertson says a vote
against intelligent design is a vote against God" "I'd like to say to the
good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to
God, you just rejected him from your city," Robertson said on his daily
television show broadcast from Virginia, "The 700 Club." ....

>On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 15:42:37 -0500 "George Murphy"
><<>> writes:
>All this talk about poor Pat, let's give him a break, finding excuses &c
>forgets 1 important thing: His statement is a profound PUBLIC offence to
>the Christian church, convincing many outside the Christian community that
>Christians are stupid and vindictive & giving them just one more reason
>not to take the claims of the gospel seriously.
>Your attempts to guilt trip those who criticize Robertson miss the
>point. Robertson hasn't sinned against me personally & my forgiving him,
>which I'm quite willing to do, isn't what's at issue. What is at issue is
>the fact that Robertson's public statement is a misrepresentation of
>Christianity, & the need for Christians to denounce & disown it (not him)
>& I wonder if the same people who urge that we be non-judgmental when
>Robertson & similar conservative Christians say things like this are
>equally quick to do so when Spong et al make their silly statements at the
>other end of the spectrum.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <>Iain Strachan
>To: <>George Murphy
>Cc: <> ;
>Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:26 PM
>Subject: Re: Why sometimes I am ashamed to be called a Christian
>What I love about Christ'sm teaching is that it always cuts both ways, so
>that whenever you start pointing the finger, you find the finger points
>back at you - this applies as much to Pat Robertson, as it does to any of
>us. I'm always reminded of the parable of the pharisee and the publican,
>and often think how often when we read such a parable that we might
>mentally think "How glad I am Lord, that you have not made me like that
>Pharisee", thereby falling into precisely the same trap.
>Yes, Pat Robertson said some stupid judgemental things there and on other
>occasions, but it appears that he has also done a huge amount of
>good. We're all in the same boat, and some pretty judgemental things are
>being said about Pat Robertson here.
>Remember, when you get all hot under the collar like this that when you
>point the finger, it points back at you. As soon as you start accusing
>someone else of being judgemental, you are being judgemental
>yourself. And, George, what is it that makes you think that you can give
>a break for the first offence, but not for subsequent ones? I thought one
>had to go up to 490 (or was it 77?) before you could get away with
>condemning someone? ;-)
>On 11/12/05, George Murphy <<>> wrote:
>It would be easier to give him a break if this were the first
>time. Unfortunately it isn't - cf. similar comments about hurricanes as
>God's punishment of Florida for accepting homosexuality.
>& given his record, why think that he spoke "rashly"? What he said was
>exactly the kind of pronouncement you make when you're rallying the troops.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 12:28 PM
>Subject: Re: Why sometimes I am ashamed to be called a Christian
>Unfortunately, a Christian on TV who speaks rashly has these things
>broadcast everywhere. I haven't taken Pat seriously since before his
>failed presidential bid . But ashamed to be a Christian over this? Pat
>Robertson's ministries have clothed, fed and given hope to more
>helpless/homeless people hundreds of thousands of times more than
>everybody on this list combined.
>The American Center for Law and Justice also has helped many thousands of
>Christians from being persecuted or discriminated at their jobs, schools
>or businesses. If you've never been persecuted (beaten or threatened to be
>fired) for your faith then you don't know how valuable some of his
>ministries are. He also founded this. So give the guy a break.
>Jack Jackson
>In a message dated 11/12/2005 8:05:51 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
><> writes:
>"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in
>your area, don't turn to God -- you just rejected Him from your city. And
>don't wonder why He hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin.
>I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted
>God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for His help
>because he might not be there."
>--Pat Robertson, talking about the people of Dover, Penn., who voted out
>school board members who had advocated adding discussions about
>"intelligent design" to biology textbooks.
>There are 3 types of people in the world.
>Those who can count and those who can't.
Received on Sat Nov 12 16:42:20 2005

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