Re: Why sometimes I am ashamed to be called a Christian

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Sat Nov 12 2005 - 15:42:37 EST

All this talk about poor Pat, let's give him a break, finding excuses &c forgets 1 important thing: His statement is a profound PUBLIC offence to the Christian church, convincing many outside the Christian community that Christians are stupid and vindictive & giving them just one more reason not to take the claims of the gospel seriously.

Your attempts to guilt trip those who criticize Robertson miss the point. Robertson hasn't sinned against me personally & my forgiving him, which I'm quite willing to do, isn't what's at issue. What is at issue is the fact that Robertson's public statement is a misrepresentation of Christianity, & the need for Christians to denounce & disown it (not him) publically.

& I wonder if the same people who urge that we be non-judgmental when Robertson & similar conservative Christians say things like this are equally quick to do so when Spong et al make their silly statements at the other end of the spectrum.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Iain Strachan
  To: George Murphy
  Cc: ;
  Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:26 PM
  Subject: Re: Why sometimes I am ashamed to be called a Christian

  What I love about Christ'sm teaching is that it always cuts both ways, so that whenever you start pointing the finger, you find the finger points back at you - this applies as much to Pat Robertson, as it does to any of us. I'm always reminded of the parable of the pharisee and the publican, and often think how often when we read such a parable that we might mentally think "How glad I am Lord, that you have not made me like that Pharisee", thereby falling into precisely the same trap.

  Yes, Pat Robertson said some stupid judgemental things there and on other occasions, but it appears that he has also done a huge amount of good. We're all in the same boat, and some pretty judgemental things are being said about Pat Robertson here.

  Remember, when you get all hot under the collar like this that when you point the finger, it points back at you. As soon as you start accusing someone else of being judgemental, you are being judgemental yourself. And, George, what is it that makes you think that you can give a break for the first offence, but not for subsequent ones? I thought one had to go up to 490 (or was it 77?) before you could get away with condemning someone? ;-)


  On 11/12/05, George Murphy <> wrote:
    It would be easier to give him a break if this were the first time. Unfortunately it isn't - cf. similar comments about hurricanes as God's punishment of Florida for accepting homosexuality.

    & given his record, why think that he spoke "rashly"? What he said was exactly the kind of pronouncement you make when you're rallying the troops.

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 12:28 PM
      Subject: Re: Why sometimes I am ashamed to be called a Christian

      Unfortunately, a Christian on TV who speaks rashly has these things broadcast everywhere. I haven't taken Pat seriously since before his failed presidential bid . But ashamed to be a Christian over this? Pat Robertson's ministries have clothed, fed and given hope to more helpless/homeless people hundreds of thousands of times more than everybody on this list combined.

      The American Center for Law and Justice also has helped many thousands of Christians from being persecuted or discriminated at their jobs, schools or businesses. If you've never been persecuted (beaten or threatened to be fired) for your faith then you don't know how valuable some of his ministries are. He also founded this. So give the guy a break.

      Jack Jackson

      In a message dated 11/12/2005 8:05:51 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, writes:
        "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God -- you just rejected Him from your city. And don't wonder why He hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for His help because he might not be there."

        --Pat Robertson, talking about the people of Dover, Penn., who voted out school board members who had advocated adding discussions about "intelligent design" to biology textbooks.

  There are 3 types of people in the world.
  Those who can count and those who can't.
Received on Sat Nov 12 15:44:09 2005

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