Re: Vatican

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Fri Nov 11 2005 - 14:28:17 EST

Yeah, I was oversimplifying somewhat. There were a lot of Messianic expectations in Jesus' time & others (e.g., "the prophet like Moses") that weren't technically Messianic. My point was that at least one major one was seen by Jesus as misguided.

Contemorary Jewish thought is contemporary. But while it can't be just identified with Judaism pre-70, it developed from the rabbinic Judaism of the early centuries which, in turn, developed from Pharisaism, the major Jewish movement to survive the 2 Jewish revolts.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: D. F. Siemens, Jr.
  Cc: ; ;
  Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:11 PM
  Subject: Re: Vatican

  I got a new take on your third point from Dr. Peter Flint's recent lectures in Phoenix. The Dead Sea scrolls present more comprehensively the Jewish view of the time when Jesus lived. Expulsion of the Romans was only a part of the whole. At the time there were three major groups, only one of which, the Pharisees, survived in later Judaism. Contemporary Jewish thought is fourth century, not first.

  On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:13:04 -0500 "George Murphy" <> writes:
    1) The question of canonicity is of course exactly the opposite of my "opinion." It is one of the "opinion" of the church catholic since the 2d century.

    2) Why you would imagine that "a literal reading of the Bible" is my "burden" I cannot imagine, except that it may fit in with some pet theory of yours. If you had paid any attention to other posts on this list you would have seen that I've sometimes been criticized for not being sufficiently "literal."

    3) My 3d sentence explained that the "Jewish concepts of the Messiah" which I said carried little weight were "the predominant popular Jewish messianic concept at the time, the leader who would throw out the Romans and establish Jewish domination." I never said, or have said, or - deo volente - will say that the Hebrew scriptures are unimportant for Christian theology. It's the Gnostics who generally took that line!

    4) If you would take the trouble to read, & try to understand, what other people write instead of just seizing every opportunity to ride off on your hobby horse you might be able to make more useful contributions to conversations.

Received on Fri Nov 11 14:28:32 2005

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