RE: Vatican

From: Stephen J. Krogh, P.G. <panterragroup@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu Nov 10 2005 - 18:36:22 EST

 -----Original Message-----
From: RFaussette@aol.com [mailto:RFaussette@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 5:25 PM
To: panterragroup@mindspring.com; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: Vatican

  In a message dated 11/10/2005 10:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, panterragroup@mindspring.com writes:
      -----Original Message-----
      From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of RFaussette@aol.com
      . I will provide a partner for him.Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:24 PM
      To: rjschn39@bellsouth.net; jarmstro@qwest.net; asa@calvin.edu
      Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Vatican

      In a message dated 11/9/2005 10:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, rjschn39@bellsouth.net writes:

      Jewish theology posits the messiah to be male and female. The reasoning goes this way: Before Eve was created from Adam's rib, Adam contained both male and female principles and therefore had NO DESIRE.
    That is a novel take. In the garden, Adam realized that not one of the animals was a suitable helper and mate. Next, God put Adam to sleep, performed an operation, awakened Adam and introduced to him the newly created Eve. Adam's response when he sees Eve for the first time was happa’am. This expression is usually translated as “now at length” (Gen. 29:34-35, 30:20, 46:30, and Judges 15:3), roughly equivalent to our English expression “at last.” Sounds like his desire was fulfilled. It looks like Adam knew he was not complete, having a desire for a mate. If he didn't have that desire, I don't believe he would have expressed, "finally."

  Adam's does not realize anything and that error invalidates your argument. Here is the relevant text.

  "The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to till it and care for it. He told the man,"You may eat from every tree in the garden, but not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die." Then the Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone."

  The sequence here is God's doing, not Adam's and it supports my argument that Adam (before Eve is created) was told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and he did not. God then presents the animals to Adam and he names the animals God brings him and when God realizes there is no helper/mate for Adam, only then is Eve created, and only then is there a fall.
  It is precisely the same in The New English Bible and in the Twenty Four Books of the Scriptures translated by Isaac Leeser Hebrew Publishing Company of New York. Even if Adam is happy to have Eve it is not because he realized anything. In both of these translations it is God who wants a helper/mate for Adam. It is God who presents the animals for Adam to name but among them he does not find a helper/mate suitable for Adam. God initiates everything. There is no indication in the text that Adam's desire had anything to do with this sequence notwithstanding his exclamation happa'am.
  I did a search on happa'am. The link is below and a snip from the text is below that.

  http://www.apologeticspress.org/modules.php?name=Read&cat=1&itemid=427
  In the final analysis, context determines the appropriate interpretation. Grammatical and contextual considerations indicate that Adam simply was reacting to the humanity of Eve, in contradistinction to the animals. The definite article (ha), especially when prefixed to time words (e.g., pa‘am), carries a demonstrative force (Seow, 1987, p. 35). Accordingly, Adam simply specified that “this time” (happa‘am), unlike the other times when he observed mere animal nature, he was confronted with his human female counterpart.

  rich faussette
I am not Jewish, so I found it to be a very Novel approach.

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Received on Thu Nov 10 18:37:31 2005

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