Re: Thermodynamics and Money [Oil/Energy]

From: janice matchett <>
Date: Sun Oct 30 2005 - 22:42:55 EST

At 10:32 PM 10/30/2005, D. F. Siemens, Jr. wrote:
>Beyond what Chuck says, I think there is a nitwit charge: you're not using
>all the energy in the uranium (Pu) nucleus. This is because fissioning
>usually produces a couple of neutrons and a couple nuclei whose total mass
>is fairly close to the original U or Pu mass. Therefore, since you haven't
>transformed all the mass of the U or Pu into energy, you're "wasting" it.
>You can avoid this waste by rescinding the laws of nature. So chop! chop!

### "...In the real world, however, investors don't care a fig whether
they earn positive Eroei"

<>Thermodynamics and
Money [Oil/Energy]
Posted on 10/29/2005 2:59:11 PM EDT by

>On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:53:32 -0600 "Tjalle T Vandergraaf"
><<>> writes:
>The link to an article on thermodynamics and energy posted by Janice
>Matchett doesn't lead to anything new. Of course, there are many cases
>where more energy is spent than is being generated. This is the reality of
>Newton's laws of thermodynamics. Any process used to convert one form of
>energy into a more useful form is inefficient. What this has to do with
>energy supplies is beyond me. The article also contains this gem: "As an
>alternative to gas, Total S.A., the French oil giant, is thinking about
>building a nuclear power plant to supply heat to melt and crack the tar.
>But nuclear reactors extract only a minuscule fraction of the energy
>locked up in the nuclei of uranium atoms; all the rest gets discarded as
>"waste." On Eroei logic, uranium would never be used to generate either
>electricity or heat. But per unit of raw stored energy, uranium is a
>thousand times cheaper than oil." It's not only "Total S.A." that has
>looked at this. At least 20 years ago, a similar study was done in Canada
>to use organic-cooled nuclear reactors to heat the bitumen in the Alberta
>oil sands. But the statement that "nuclear reactors extract only a
>minuscule fraction of the energy locked up in the nuclei of uranium atoms;
>all the rest gets discarded as "waste"" is irrelevant. A U-235 nucleus,
>when it fissions, releases all the energy that is created in the
>conversion of matter to energy. Not all U-235 is fissioned (although more
>than half the U-235 is "burned" in CANDU reactors, as well as quite a bit
>of the Pu-239). Recycling the spent fuel could be used to extract the
>remaining U-235 and any Pu-239 but there is so much U in Saskatchewan that
>recycling is, at present, not economically viable.
>Chuck Vandergraaf
>From: [] On
>Behalf Of janice matchett
>Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:59 PM
>Subject: Thermodynamics and Money [Oil/Energy] Was: Re: Life after the oil
><>Thermodynamics and
>Money [Oil/Energy]
>Posted on 10/29/2005 2:59:11 PM EDT by
Received on Sun Oct 30 22:44:09 2005

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