Re: Viewpoint discrimination or careless reading.

From: Michael Roberts <>
Date: Thu Oct 06 2005 - 12:46:38 EDT

Isn't odd why embarrassing posts can disappear into the ether. This also
happens on YEC/Fundamentalist sites. (Imean Fundamentalist for 2005 and not
the real pre-WWI fundis)

With regard to Ted on freedom of speech and academic freedom, a similar case
is that after 9/11 and 7/7 (tube bombings in Britain) several civil
liberties have been curtailed in the name of security, on the grounds that
annoying restrictions are better than being blown up.

I think the whole YEC/ID political involvement in education has resulted in
a reaction in the scientific community, which then becomes less tolerant and
liable to look for any hint of YEC or ID and then clamp down on it. There
was a post on Pandasthumb casting doubt on Owen Gingerich's scientific
credibility due to his Christian faith. That came out in my references to
Dana the other day which nobody picked up on.

I think that more and more everything is being polarised into atheistic
evolution or 6 day creation , with nothing allowed in between, so most on
this list belong nowhere.

All in all it is a polarised and political mess.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Davis" <>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Viewpoint discrimination or careless reading.

Yesterday I sent this to, a site I do not normally post to.
It was in response to an outrageously arrogant post by Lenny Frank.

Thus far I have not been able to locate my post on that site and I am
wondering whether it was tossed out by the editors. Pim: You post there
often. Can you locate my post? If not, can you comment on why not?



I am struck by the irony of 'Rev Dr' Lenny Frank using the poem by Niemöller
as an implied criticism of IDs. Thus far, the only people I am aware of who
might actually have been persecuted for their beliefs in this whole matter
are the IDs themselves. There do appear to be some cases in which ID
advocates who otherwise would be accepted as good scientists, have been
singled out by their institutions for their views on this issue. Guillermo
Gonzalez at Iowa State is a clear example; the petition against him was
organized (was it not?) by a faculty member who serves as faculty advisor to
the campus atheist organization--an affiliation he has every right to have,
but which also speaks loudly in my view of his attempt to discredit Dr
Gonzalez. Just in the past few days, a biologist at the Univ of Idaho had
his academic freedom denied by the president, who forbids his *science*
faculty from discussing ID in classes, although faculty in other depts may
do so if they wish. I regard that as a clear infringement of this
scientist's academic freedom.

I am no advocate of ID, as anyone can easily determine. I am however an
advocate of academic freedom. If I were given a similar directive, I'd sue
the university--and it would be interesting to see whether the ACLU would
then do the right thing and take the case.
Received on Thu Oct 6 12:47:51 2005

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