Re: God's history (Was God the interactor)

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Mon Sep 05 2005 - 14:58:41 EDT

Don't tell me I don't understand. Show that my statements are
inconsistent. You haven't done this, just shown that you don't understand
timelessness. George has quoted Augustine in connection with the view I
have been presenting. So the notion of a temporal deity has been
recognized as self-stultifying for more than my lifetime.

The closest I have found to your position within orthodoxy is a view, I
think promoted by Craig, that the non-temporal deity became temporal when
he created the universe. It apparently requires that the deity in
eternity past understood the whole of time, but now has to wait to act.
Did the Godhead dumb himself down, or did the Second Person empty
himself? The first option seems to me silly. The second provides for our

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton
<> writes:
> --- George Murphy <> wrote:
> > Dave -
> >
> > To take your last 1st, I do NOT believe in a "time restricted
> deity" but in
> > an eternal deity who is willing & able to be involved in the
> world's history.
> >
> And I take the same position. Dave, you quite correctly empyhasize
> that as
> humans our perspective is restricted by the fact that we live in
> time. I see it
> as a blind spot on your part that you cannot or will not acknowledge
> that
> because we are bound by time, thinking about how the creator does or
> does not
> participate in time is somewhat speculative.
> Let me throw out another example. I develop real-time software for
> automotive
> applications. My code thus "lives" in a different environment
> timewise from the
> one I live in. Time is discrete instead of (as I preceive it anyway)
> continuous. But I can in a sense enter into the environment my code
> executes in
> by processing logged data and runnihng my code under the debugger.
> I can
> trigger on events of interest to me, I can single step, and I can
> even change a
> variable to see how that affects execution. Furthermore, if my code
> was a
> conscious entity, it would have no means of knowing that I was
> intervening in
> its environment. (unless I were smart enough to write some code that
> would
> somehow communicate to my code that its author was perturbing it) It
> is
> possible that God can enter our time in something like that way.
> Bill Hamilton
> William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
> 586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
> "...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
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Received on Mon Sep 5 15:13:08 2005

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