Re: God's history (Was God the interactor)

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Mon Sep 05 2005 - 15:07:39 EDT

Speaking for myself, I have no problem affirming the ecumenical creeds.
What I am trying to do as a philosopher is to present a coherent view
that also takes other scriptural teachings into account. This has a long
and honorable history, with Augustine and Aquinas the most famous
activists. George, I think, is placing more emphasis on the creeds

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:42:13 -0600 "Terry M. Gray"
<> writes:
> For both George and David here:
> Are either or both of you trying to move "beyond" the formulations
> in
> the Definition of Chalcedon or Athanasian Creed? (See http://
> for the texts here.) I hate to
> be
> pedantic here but isn't much of this debate "simply" part of the
> mystery of the Trinity or part of the mystery of the Incarnation.
> The
> ancient creeds have been content to affirm what scripture affirms
> and
> deny what it denies without necessarily pressing for logical
> resolution--incomprehensible is what attribute of God that comes to
> mind here. Also, distinctions are clearly made between the human
> nature and the divine nature even though these exist in one person.
> So while patripassionism is denounced, the suffering and death of
> the
> God-man is not. Yet sometimes scripture itself uses language that is
> not precise according to our theological formulation in attributing
> to all persons of the Trinity that which is true (by our precise
> formulations) of only one person. Thus, it is said, sometimes
> scripture is emphasizing the union of the Trinity or the two natures
> of Christ; sometimes it is emphasizing the distinctions. No where
> does scripture bring it all together the way the creeds attempt to.
> A
> Chalcedonian idea that I have found useful is "union without
> fusion";
> "distinction without separation". Each of the historic heresies can
> be seen as trying to undo this tension a bit.
> Anyway, I'm sure that neither of you need me to lecture you on these
> doctrines, but I was a bit curious as to what extent traditional
> dogmatic reflection on these matters has entered your thinking. For
> example, do either or both of you dismiss these creeds as being
> unhelpful or irrelevant because they are too much influenced by Greek
> thinking?
> TG
> ________________
> Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
> Computer Support Scientist
> Chemistry Department
> Colorado State University
> Fort Collins, CO 80523
> (o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801
Received on Mon Sep 5 15:13:08 2005

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