Re: God as tinkerer

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
Date: Sat Aug 27 2005 - 00:29:54 EDT

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton
<williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>
> --- "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Great, Bill! So with God, everything must happen--no exceptions.
> Jesus is
> > the incarnate Son and he is not the incarnate Son. He can create a
> rock
> > so big that he can't lift it. Contrary to the scriptural
> declaration, God
> > can lie. So Satan is not the father of lies.
>
> NO! If we try to speculate on what can and cannot be in the absence
> of
> Scripture, then there's no limit to what we can conclude. But
> Scripture teaches
> that Jesus is the incarnate son, God cannot lie and Satan is the
> father of
> lies.
>
> You brought up the old chestnut I said I wasn't going to bring up. I
> don;'t
> know how theologians respond to this one, but my observation is that
> God can
> make a stone of any size he desires, and he can move a stone of any
> size, so
> the question doesn't imply any limitation.
> >
> > As to uncertainty, it functions as it does because we are
> restricted to
> > one-dimensional time, one point at a time, though what we observe
> may not
> > correspond to what an observer in movement measures.
>
> True, but I think our problem is that we try to represent entities
> that cannot
> properly be called particles as particles. We ought to trust the
> math of the
> Schroedinger equation and realize that an electron (for example) is
> an entity
> whose mass and momentum are distributed according to the
> Schroedinger equation.
> It doesn't make sense to speculate whether God knows the mass and
> momentum
> simultaneously, because the concepts ddon't make sense.
>
> In any case Scripture represents a constraint on o0ur rerasoning,
> and Scripture
> clearly teaches that God can interact with creatures like us who
> function
> within the constraints of time.
>
> Bill Hamilton
> William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
> 586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
> "...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
>
Bill,
You've missed the point. If you once enter nonsense (strict sense), all
nonsense follows. Nothing can be salvaged.

Yes, scripture places restrictions on what WE believe, but not
universally. At the extreme, there are atheists. They draw different
conclusions because they hold different premisses.

Yes, God as creator and sustainer of the time-space mass-energy universe
acts as he wills. We perceive his acts in time, the only way we can
observe anything. This does not place him in time. If he foreknows and
predestinates us to glorification (which we still haven't seen), he
foreknows our prayers and has the answer waiting. There are no surprises
for him. Everything in the whole of creation is open to him. But there
are no contradictions in what is real
Dave
Received on Sat Aug 27 00:32:56 2005

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