Re: tinkering God

From: Jim Armstrong <>
Date: Thu Aug 25 2005 - 12:55:23 EDT

Yuh! Ask me something easy to explain!!

Actually, I don't think the change of state per se and its temporalness
is particularly germane to this parallel. I wasn't talking about
either/or here.

I was thinking more of existing simultaneously in two different
"states", as does water in the specific "expressions" of vapor and ice.
The vapor is not shape/volume constrained, but the ice is. Yet the two
forms are essentially the same substance, and in the same domain of
existence. I'm just thinking out loud here, looking for a way to suggest
that God might "reasonably" exist simultaneously in and outside of
time. Isn't that sort of what is implicit with taking Jesus to be
incarnate time-constrained deity? [This gets very complicated for me
where the time-constrained diety speaks to himself in the form of the
non-constrained self - very confusing]. I'm just poking at the idea that
the time-constrained existence is just a special case (subset?) of the
greater reality that God "inhabits". JimA

D. F. Siemens, Jr. wrote:

> Jim,
> Now if you will just explain the change of state in eternal spirit.
> Note that change involves time, which means that the previous state is
> temporal, truly before.
> Consider the possibilities with a deity. God is either eternal or not
> eternal. In the latter case, as in Neoplatonic emanationism, the world
> deity came into being from a greater source. This, in the long run,
> requires either an infinite regress of deities or one of the two next
> possibilities. (1) God is eternal in the sense of being endlessly
> existent in infinite time. This is the province of pantheism and
> panentheism. Hindu pantheism has an endless cycle, eternal recurrence,
> with the deity being one with the world. I haven't seen that
> panentheism has actually addressed the problem, keeping to the current
> universe. (2) God is eternal in the sense of being timeless, totally
> outside of time. Only under this can he be the creator of time,
> mass-energy, change--the total intertwined reality of which we are aware.
> Dave
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:00:07 -0700 "Jim Armstrong" <
> <>> writes:
> Water remains H20 whether it is water vapor or ice. Vapor and ice
> are two different manifestations of the same substance, separated
> (usually) by two state changes. Same stuff, different expression.
> Why cannot this be an analogy for the God state, in the one case
> expressed in temporal form, in another exempt? JimA
Received on Thu Aug 25 12:57:41 2005

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